I realized heading into college and all Ill need somewhat of a small shop in my room (unless my college has it). How would I bend aluminum (at sharp degrees like 45, 90, etc),cut them into shapes and drill holes into them (probably the easier part…dremels)?
I’ve been looking into CNC milling machines but have no clue which to buy or if its the right thing I’m looking for. Plus they cost heaps of money.
Thanks for the guidance.
You can fit a small shop into a spare bedroom.
Look into the Sherline mill and lathe. I have CNC’d both my mill and lathe, and I can do most any function, as long as it fits into the work envelope of the mill (or lathe).
Forget the Dremel. Better to do the drilling on the mill. And/or pick up a good 3/8" electric hand drill.
For bending, a $30 - $40 sheet metal brake from Harbor Freight works for light gage sheet metal stock. I bent up brackets for my Loki (look under bipeds on this forum, or watch for the article in Servo Magazine).
OR, Just buy the brackets from Lynxmotion. They have a good variety!
Alan KM6VV
Is there anything you can use besides a CNC machine to make brackets or chassis? I want to make custom brackets but i dont have enough money to use on a CNC machine.
My point exactly. I want a small CNC milling system for its quality but its so expensive ($2000+!)…and I’m not even sure if the $500 ones are even 3D cutters. But thats because I know nothing about mills…where would one go to learn about which one to buy for small home applications?
I was thinking other options…maybe find a local store that makes cuts and bends for you? Of course, this is for aluminum and other metals. You wouldnt need a CNC for other materials…but do CNC’s work for plastics (like HDPE, PVC) and woods? That would be a heck of an investment if they can cut all of those.
What do you mean you have “CNC’d” your mill and lathe? Are you speaking of the whole programming piece? And how large is a typical work envelope of a small mill? Also, how is the lathe beneficial?
Can the drilling bits on the mill be changed to make holes of different sizes?
I’ve seen it, it’s a really nice looking robot. What material is it made of? And yes what you did for the Loki is what I’m interested in doing for my robots (I’m speaking of the whole cutting shapes and whatnot).
Of course, no one has better brackets. But I’m really interested in an investment for future plans as I’m sure when I go into college I’ll be broke and LM brackets might not always been what I require for further mechanical projects.
Guidance is much appreciated.
I only meant to expand upon your mention of CNC. I choose to use it. You certainly DON’T need it to cut out brackets! A band saw works nicely, even a hacksaw will work.
All of the bracket shapes are simple arcs and straight lines, not hard to lay out on sheet metal with the common metal working tools like squares and dividers.
Alan KM6VV
Hi,
Check out the Sherline and SherlineCNC lists on yahoo (see the URLs under my signature). The small Sherline mill works great for cutting out most any material. Yes, even steel. I prefer brass and aluminum. I often make steel parts as well. I milled the decks for lynxguy’s new walter robot. Check on the Sherline website for books. Joe has one out that’s good. Build up the CNC on the mill yourself! Get a used mill, add the conversion kit and stepper motors yourself! Probably for about $1000.
The Sherline mill can now be purchased as a complete CNC system. When I started with my mill 6 or 7 years ago, I bought a “CNC conversion kit”, and added stepper motors, motor drivers, and wrote a control program to run on a PC under DOS. So I did the hardware, electrical, and the software. The work envelope is about 4" x 4" x 8". The lathe is less useful, but handy if you want to turn parts like wheels, hubs, and such. Get a mill first.
You use various sized drill chucks on a mill. Up to about 3/8" is easy. After that, you change to a boring tool. I build steam engine cylinders this way.
Loki was made from PCB stock. Easy to cut with handtools. aluminum sheet of 1/8" is also easy to work.
I like making my own parts! I also enjoy designing the parts! And I can make special parts when I want them. I get a real sense of pleasure from designing and building things. Add electronics (microcomputers) and programming to that, and there’s plenty of angles to work on!
Alan KM6VV
Is the “small” mill you’re talking about the cheapest one: sherlinedirect.com/index.cfm … duct_ID=18 listed at $650.00? And what is this “build up the CNC” thing you speak of? I barely know how a mill works I doubt spending $1000 and modding it myself with conversions and whatnot is a smart idea. Lets take it one step at a time. Does or does not the mill use the computer’s CAD software to cut the shape out? I can’t imagine sitting there spinning wheels trying to cut an arc by hand. Is this the whole CNC conversion you’re talking about?
I have no problem buying a used one. I’m looking for something to cut aluminum/brass shapes automatically with precision, not by hand.
So we share the same exact feeling.
Yes,
A brand new mill is about $650. Try Ebay! Get used to machining on it, then add the CNC kit, motors, etc. There are lists (my SherlineCNC, for example), with guys that DO know how it’s all done, and can advise you all the way. Learn from others!
The mill uses a “CNC controller program” to “read” Gcode (a set of position instructions) from a file, and command the motors on the mill to move properly to cut the stock. A CAD program is used to “draw” the part, and calculate the “tool path” that the cutter on the mill will take. There’s a white paper in the files of my SherlineCNC list that explains the process.
Well, then I suggest you join the lists (Sherline and SherlineCNC), listen, and ASK QUESTIONS! It’s a very enjoyable process, and you’ll gain a lot of knowledge in the process, as well as developing skills and a fine piece of equipment.
Alan KM6VV
Ah okay, I’m beginning to understand. A mill is for cutting by hand. A CNC is for cutting by computer.
If I purchase just the mill, how does one cut? I assume you spin the wheels to move the drill around? But it doesnt seem that easy when trying to cut an arc…you’d have to spin both the X/Y wheels at different speeds.
How are these for mills?
harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/D … mber=39743
harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/D … mber=47158
Bandsaw sounds good enough… where can you get one (thats good to cut through aluminum and lexan(?))
Though a CNC would be very nice for making alot of one part. Though the process behind using one of the machines with a computer sounds sorta complicated 
.
You ADD CNC to a mill or lathe. This lets the computer “spin” the knobs.
There are methods of cutting arcs with a mill not having CNC. The center of the arc is placed over the center of a rotary table. The table turns, the cutter cuts the portion of the arc desired.
They may be usable. I don’t know how easy it would be to add CNC. There are probably groups on Yahoo for these. Usual caveats for machines made in China.
Alan KM6VV
Got it, and letting the computer do the work makes your production faster but are the cuts any better? If the cutting with a regular mill by hand is just as good or close to a computers, than I’m perfectly all for it! I cant afford a $1050 upgrade kit for the cheapest $650 sherline 5000. Could you tell me a bit more about how the cutting process works without a CNC and how the quality of the cuts go as well as dis/advantages to having or not having a CNC (I know this is a lot of questions but I need your help before spending a lot of savings at this time).
Are there any videos of this online? And would purchasing the regular $650 mill come with this “rotary table”?
Yeah I wouldnt trust it either. But I thought harbor freight was reliable (and it doesnt say anything about china in those 2 links).
Cutting with a non-CNC mill would be just fine. Not as fast, surely, and of course, humans occasionally make mistakes. And sometimes the stock gets loose and work is spoiled under CNC control as well.
The arcs can get a little tricky, as mentioned. The rotary table is of course extra. The cutting process is essentially the same! Multiple passes must be made to make cuts. Easy for a computer to repeat it’s steps, a lot of “knob spinning” for a human! But still fun, in my opinion.
Can you get your hands on a mill somewhere? The closer to the size you want to own, the better. Are you familiar with hand tools? That’s a good place to start. You can, you know, make brackets similar to LM’s with simple hand tools. OK, it takes quite a bit of craftsmanship to come close to what can be done with CNC, but I’m of the opinion that one should at least be competent with hand tools before attempting to master a CNC machine. Not a simple undertaking! Ask questions on the SherlineCNC list!
I should say that one does not usually cut out sheet metal (plastic, etc) with a mill! But it does indeed work! Perhaps check out sheet metal work first? Now if you need to shape small BLOCKS of metal and plastic, then the mill is the logical choice. Of course, the mill can also serve as your drillpress.
I don’t know of any videos on cutting arcs with a rotary table. I’ve described the process several times in the model steam engine plans that I’ve sold on line. I suggest you ask how to do it on one of the lists I’ve mentioned. You’ll get a raft of replies from knowledgeable persons. Sheet metal arcs are usually cut with a special “throatless” shear. It doesn’t sound like you’ve worked with sheet metal much? Using a CNC mill might be considered “overkill” for making these parts! I do it because I can, and because I enjoy it! And besides, I get better parts, and parts that I couldn’t otherwise make.
But look at metalworking this way, it’s a WHOLE hobby (or vocation) to it’s self! Considerable fun, but a lot of time to invest.
I generally assume HF tools to be from China. They can still be useful, but you need to evaluate them for your own needs/skills. They can be disappointing… Get a knowledgeable friend to go along and help you decide if the equipment offered is appropriate for your needs. I have a (huge) RF31 mill that I got a great buy on from HF. I went in with my eyes open, and did my research first.
Alan KM6VV
The rotary table is another $320. It doesn’t seem like this stuff should be that expensive. I wish they had some home-application prices. Maybe I might be able to get a student discount when I enter college this fall. Or I might be able to bother them this summer with requests of a discount on their cheapest CNC system.
Okay so cutting with a non-cnc mill without a rotary table Im assuming can only cut straight lines…arcs would require spinning 2 knobs at once at different speeds…and would come out crap without that table. If I had a cnc machine, would I still need the table for arcs?
Yes, I can cut many things with hand tools, but I have this bad habit and desire for “perfectionism” and quality. I love a smooth edge or the perfect semi-circle. Mistakes will be made, but thats in every craft.
I feel that if I’m going to making small machines within the next 10 years, an investment into the CNC machine would be a good choice. What is a DRO? And If I save up $2000 over the summer, would that be enough for a CNC system or is there more I would need to buy?
In case you’re wondering, I need to make cuts such as the brackets and chassic pieces you see on the bipeds/hexapods on the LM website. Flat chassis’s, flat rounded rectangles (and then bend with a brake to turn into brackets), and other small pieces. So maybe that should help give a perspective on what mill would be right for me. Definitely not hand tools, definitely not some huge plasma laser cutter.
And no I havent worked with sheet metal much, but I cant imagine cutting out nice contours any other way besides a CNC mill. I should say that metalworking and woodworking is a favorite topic of mine that I’ve always wanted to get into as I love DIY stuff. So its something I’m willing to invest time into. And hopefully a cnc machine will make life easier.
Also, could you give me some input on this sherline: sherlinedirect.com/index.cfm … duct_ID=26 … it says its CNC ready yet its only $880. Am i correct when I say adding the stepper motors would complete this system or is there more things missing. Because $880 (+ stepper motors) sounds great compared to the thousands elsewhere.
Yeah, I keep forgetting how prices go up. And remember, there are both manual and CNC RT’s. Some distributors will sell Sherline hardware for slightly less.
Basically only straight lines. Even angles would be hard, although one usually rotates the stock to get the angles. If you are careful, you can cut arcs with a little home-made jig. Bolt a piece of flat stock down to the bed of the mill, and drill and tap for a bolt. The head of the bolt is cut off, and serves as a pivot for the part. One manually rotates the stock against the cutter, and you get an arc! It could work for you.
And even with cutting the parts with a saw, one can always “clean 'em up” with a file. That’s the way it’s commonly done. A pair of tinsnips can cut a lot of metal!
Yes, I believe these small Sherline machines with CNC are a good investment.
DRO is a digital readout for a mill or lathe. You don’t need it if you want to go to CNC. The “CNC ready” machine that you mention has the “CNC upgrade kit” already installed. You need to and steppers, a stepper driver board, and a program (free) to run the mill. And of course you’ll need a CAD program (probably) to design the parts. A free program will take your DXF files and generate the Gcode that is read by the program that runs the mill. Then there are little things like clamps, cutters, chucks… that you’ll need to actually start doing jobs.
The Sherline mills are all the same size, the 2000 model just has more tilts and swings that aren’t needed.
Yes, it is quite attractive to be able to make very accurate parts, some that you couldn’t make otherwise, with CNC. And I LOVE to watch it run!
Alan KM6VV
I went through this thought process about a year ago after I cut a part by hand from 6061 T6. I’ll never do that again! It’s actually pretty dangerous if you don’t have the right equipment, and the metal shards are a hazard that should not be overlooked.
I did a lot of research and concluded that a Sherline doesn’t make sense for me. As a hobbyist (with a job and family), I’m better off spending my time designing, building and programming.
I buy whatever parts I can, and for custom chassis parts I use black Delrin. It’s much more pleasant to work with than any metal, lexan or acrylic. A cheap scroll saw works great. Of course you can’t make a bent bracket out of Delrin, but there are already cheap brackets available on the market.
Okay, I joined the yahoo group and waiting for some people to answer my question on what will be best for me.
Did some more researching and everything becoming clear now. Im betting that this is what I need to buy to have the cheapest CNC system:
sherlinedirect.com/index.cfm … duct_ID=26
Thats the cheapest CNC ready machine I could find. All thats missing is the motors and software…found here:
sherlinedirect.com/index.cfm … uct_ID=205
Yep, thats gonna run me over just $2000 with shipping and all. Oh and I’m still wondering if a CNC equipped milling machine still requires the RT to make arcs? I would assume no, as the X/Y tables can move according to the gcode to produce it. Wouldnt make sense to have it. For example, lynxmotion C brackets have that servo horn shaped arc at each end. That would require the machine to make a straight line…arc…straight line again and close the rounded rectangle shape with another arc.
( __________ )
That will certainly work. However I believe you will get some recommendations to buy a kit or assembled driver board, and probably some slightly bigger stepper motors. Are you comfortable building electrical circuits?
You won’t need the RT to make all the arcs you want. It is still a good thing to have!
That’s how it works! Simple moves make up Gcode.
Alan KM6VV
Just found this video of the 5400 series in use: youtube.com/watch?v=oBZ6md-t0L8 Somewhere after 1:30 you see the top of the head of the Autobots logo which is an arc being designed without a rotary table. Looks good! Also the 5000 series has a 3" Y travel, which doesnt sound promising at all while the 5400 has a 5" Y travel, which sounds better…much better. The 2000 is just awesome but a little too much money, I’d like to get what I need for as cheap as I can get.
Now, my final questions are this: The upgrade to CNC kit includes motors, cables and such. Am I going to need anything else? Why would I need a driver board? I thought it comes with a driver box? And why would I need bigger stepper motors? No, I’m not comfortable with electrical circuits. Did it once back in middle school and havent been able to touch them since. I’m going to study Electronic Engineering as my major but until then I dont know much.
The 5400 Deluxe mill is the one I have. Bigger throat, you can use that! Arcs? You bet. Go look at the parts I made for loki (feet and body). They’re ALL curves and arcs! You don’t need all of the 2000’s tilts and swings if you have CNC. Nor the rotary table. But the table is really helpful if you DON’T have CNC.
The upgrade kit you referenced had the steppers and driver box, all that is needed. If you DIY the drives, then you need the parts I mentioned. Bigger steppers cut faster, deeper. for what you mention cutting, you’ll have no problems with the Sherline equipment. I’ve had one at the house myself.
If you ask questions on the lists I’ve mentioned, you’ll be able to come up to speed with a CNC’d mill.
Alan KM6VV
