We are very sorry of the turn of events

Community General Discussions
1

Hi Everyone,


We are very sorry of the turn of events since we purchased Let's Make Robots. Our intention was to have a family friendly website where robotics enthusiasts of all ages could come learn about robotics and share robotics projects to other members. We were very surprised and it was incomprehensible for us that some members would not approve of this change and our desire to welcome everyone that is interested in learning about robots and how to make them. We have been working hard since 2003 to bring robotics to everyone's service and take pride in listening to our customers and making sure we offer excellent service.

We do understand that change can be scary and this caused a reaction from some older LMR members. While it was not our intention for things to get this far, please understand that we had to protect the RobotShop brand along the way. We do admit that there could have been many ways to react to this situation but, we have not banned any LMR members. We are in contact with some members of the community as their accounts have been blocked temporarily in order to ask further questions for security reasons.

We do care to resolve this in a timely manner and apologize to everyone affected by recent changes to the LMR community. Our intention is to make the community grow in a friendly environment where everyone is welcome to share and ask questions no matter the age or experience.

We remain very much open and hope to resolve any issues still in effect.

Thank you,

Mario Tremblay, CEO
RobotShop inc.

2

Websites like this one don’t

Websites like this one don’t consist of data on the server. The stuff communities are made of are people and connections between them, and it’s not possible to take an existing community and somehow make it turn on a dime to suddenly appeal to a different audience. This community is not family-friendly, and making it so would take a lot of work, mostly in attracting more people who care about it being family-friendly. Personally, I wouldn’t mind – in fact, I removed most of my content from this website some time ago precisely because of problems that you are trying to fight now. But that’s not how communities work, and people who call this forum their home will defend it from any change they view as external. Even when the change is for the good in the long run.

I really don’t envy you the situation you are in, but perhaps you could take your time and wait a little bit longer before making large changes. Focus on fixing small things, if you have to do something, and get to know the people here. I’m sure it can be all worked out to be beneficial to all of us.

P.S. You meant “affected”.

3

Thanks and let’s get back to robotics and a better LMR

Thank you Mario for your explanations.

 

As all we know any change is usually difficult, so the more information we have the better we can keep going.

 

Personally I was fed up from some few LMR members who made some bad comments to some new members who came complaining about bad treatment. Thouse who think simple communy rules are for children are not mature enought, thats it, because respect is the basics about any productive relationship. As we are here for enjoying robotics and not any trolling behaviour, we should take care about the members and general people who come for help and sharing. If anyone thinks that can have bad behavior because knows a lot about robotics or is here for a long time that person/member is wrong. 

 

LMR is for all of us and on that way it should be. On the other side maybe many don’t know, but LMR has 1,7 million visits a year. That means a lot of web traffic, which is good because we have then lots of members, interesting projects around, also manufacturers which give away products for reviews. That also means an expensive bandwith plus website maintenance bills and someone has to pay it. Until now Frits (mainly) was doing so with his own pocket and a bit (not too much) from  sponsors. But is was simple too much for a long time. For that reason RobotShop joining us means good news: more support, new sharing features and new manufacturers and products reviews. 

I know many of you want a more mature and powerful LMR community, but only a few are talking. Please tell us your thoughts and support in this new LMR stage to make it better and more about robotics. Thanks!

 

Francisco

4

That’s why we need to improve LMR

Thanks deshipu,

 

Removing your hard worked content because some nasty comments shouldn’t be the answer but I understand it. However LMR community is made from very different people, some experts also most newers learning. And those learners shouldn’t be punished but supported, but maybe some of those “experts” are not very good giving feedback or not mature enough so let’s not blame them. Let’s just keep making robots and publishing about them. The more comments (and criticism) we get, the more we’ll learn, not taking care about nasty comments too :wink:

 

Take care and LMR!

5

You can save or destroy LMR

I’m member for 27 weeks and 4 days now and I have experienced LMR as a great place where everybody helps you, gives tips and loves the community and the website itself.

But now you want to change the website all the “old” members worked with for years, and I think (If I’m wrong tell me) this will lead them to leave LMR, Birdmun misses the box with new projects and OddBot the creativity others may miss something too or think new things are destroying LMR.

Creating a website for everyone means change the website but what if LMR doesn’t want to change ?You can change LMR makeing it a better place for new members or you can get it running like the other 7/8 years and save it as a place too meet your old friends, talk with them and posting you new robots.

As I said I’m member for 27 weeks and 4 days now, so if I’m wrong tell me but please don’t change LMR.I think it will destroy this great community.

6

can we wait and see the over all image what will be.

Dear Robot Makers
please don’t over thinking, the website get sponsorship, and applied new rules.
can we wait and see the over all image what will be.
after 3 ~ 6 months will see if we get more viewer and maker or the number is decreased

7

Honestly I am surprised by the lack of respect for robotshop!!!

Dear: Robotshop

I love LMR and fritz too but I am surprised by the lack of respect towards robotshop. I don’t think robotshop is doing anything wrong I actual like what robotshop is doing but I wish that LMR would be more respectful. Thank you.

From: Noah

8

As you can see I didn’t

As you can see I didn’t leave completely and I tried not to make a big issue of it. I just didn’t feel it was the right kind of community for me. But I still hang around and talk with the new people who come here for help.

I understand (at least I think I do) that some people can’t, don’t want or simply didn’t try, for whatever reason, to be nice. I’m not offended or hurt. It’s their choice and it’s fine. I think I even prefer that to false politeness of so many selleres and advertisers. But it’s not pleasant, and when I have choice (and I do have choice online), I prefer to not interact with them or be associated with them through my work. But I don’t like drama, and I don’t think this is actually a big issue, the Internet is a big place and there is enough room for everybody.

9

RobotShot LMR management

I was considering leaving LMR about two weeks prior to the announcement of new ownership. In general, I am in agreement with the changes being implemented. My major regrets is the loss of online friends that hold an opposite viewpoint.

I have struggled with the notion of ownership of material on LMR. Over that past year we saw a few examples of members efforts being hijacked by less than ethical sites. A common train of thought was “Publish first on LMR” to establish ownership and set an open identity. We assumed that LMR was a protective umbrella similar to the Open Software Foundation.  As we have since learned, this is not the case and never was. We put material on a machine someplace on the internet and that collective material generated value for the owner.

To me, it is no different now. The entity RobotShop,  supplying the online resources, is in possession of the material. I am not a l lawyer and do not even want to ponder ownership. I am sure that there are different interpretations and legal standards throughout the world. However, if there is a feeling of deceit regrading finical gain, ask yourself “Who has gained?” from this transition. Whether it was $0.10 or $10,000,000. it was not RobotShop. If anything, they paid money for a site that they believed had value and after just 2 weeks must have questioned their initial assessment. 

On the other side of the equation, I believe that the member contributions to LMR are the most valuable asset. Posting pictures of completed project is nice. Shows what an individual can do with the available resources. Articles with details are what I look for. Someone half way around the globe providing detail and a willingness to help others succeed is the real value of LMR. I have been amassed by the way LMR accepts new builders with helpful nudges to their overly ambitious project or complete lack of understanding the basics.

I think we need RobotShop to establish and publish guidelines regarding language, ownership, and behavior in a manner that is clear to the most casual user. I then expect RobotShop to enforce those guidelines in a completely overt manner. We have conventions as to driving on the “right” side of the road. When in England I adjust to the “right” side. It is a small price for the comport and security that the convention provides. Same on the internet, respect others and expect respect in return.  

I overstepped the politeness line in a forum posting that personally attacked OddBot for what I considered inappropriate action in the Shout Box. Apparently RobotShop thought the same as the post has been removed. To me, this was the the proper action. I did expect an email describing their action but things were not progressing smoothly with the entire site.

BTW, my rant against OddBot shows why we need guidelines. OddBot typed a line that essentially said “Entirely useless”. The prior conversation had changed (at my end) from a discussion of diodes to the merits of BDK writing technical papers. I am willing to allow that OddBot was referring to a component on a schematic. If this misunderstanding was due either internet lag or the SB getting messages out of order, I owe him an apology. This entire event would never (I hope) have happened if we had limited SM conversations to polite “How are you doing” conversations and posted technical comments or corrections via the forum reply mechanism.

My other complaint against LMR was excessive use of profanity in the SB. I want my grandchildren to build robots and could not point them to LMR as it stood. At that time I was unaware that the SB was not visible to non-members. RootShop implemented the On/Off feature. Moving in the right direction but I think it should be something more restrictive. There should be a waiting period, say 2 weeks, before a new user or censored member can post any messages. I also think there should be multiple SB options. I don’t want a PG15 style system and I don’t want an “elders” verses “newbies” separation.

There are a few ways in which an organization such as RobotShop could enhance the LMR community:

  1. They have the resources to improve the posting procedure to smoothly support embed videos.
  2. They have a customer base that might be in need of an “expert” for hire. Especially in the 3D printing arena.
  3. They could provide kits to members that will evaluate and accurately post experience.
  4. They could sponsor contests that showcase their products.

All 4 sentences started with “They”. The member supplied material is already there. RobotShop needs to find a method to protect and enhance its value. I need to find a mechanism to remain in contact with friends lost in the mess. 

George

10

How can we find out who has been banned?

I am a long time lurker, and now a brand new member. It seems a lot of folks I used to rely on for information are no longer available. Is there any way to know who we have lost and why? I’ve heard through the grapevine that even elders like frits and CTC were banned?

Could this be true? How? Why?

11

It´s nice

Thanks deshipu for your honest answer,

It´s nice to have you around and I don´t like neither all that much drame.

Cheers and robots!

12

** I had noticed occasional**

 

I had noticed occasional comments on here, to be impolite, but nothing I would consider offensive. I’ve heard worse language, on a school’s playground, to be honest, so I don’t really know why members are getting banned. Especially members, with such a rich history on LMR.

I myself, expected a certain amount of ridicule, for asking questions, which may appear obvious to anyone with experience, but not to myself. I even went so far, as to set myself up with a ridicule page, for such comments. My idea being, if I were to ask a silly question, anyone wishing to ridicule me for it could do so on that page, thereby leaving the comment section, of my silly question free from clutter.

When I read the site rules, i find them to be vague and open to a multitude of interpretation. Some of them aren’t even rules, so much as guide lines. This wasn’t a bad thing, when LMR, was a community driven project, however if long standing members are now getting banned, perhaps it’s time to clarify, what the rules actually mean?

By the way, if anyone wishes to ridicule what I’ve said here, then please do so at my ridicule page.

https://www.robotshop.com/letsmakerobots/ridicule-page

 

13

Good to know

Hi Paul,

I liked the ridicule-page idea, congratulations! I think the more one can get critics the more can learn, about himself, others and the topic. However not everybody is mature enough, also some critics are not very productive but destructive (we so some), so it’s good to take care of people who are new here, of course about the older too.

I think also there has been more drama and letters than things actually hapening. And from the things I know, all who have being banned have being also contacted so they can keep going with their accounts. Of course if the behaved badly and they don’t care about anything, things can get only worse but I think nobody wants that.

Anyway I see most of the members are still in the site and others told me already they will keep posting. So there is probably LMR for a long time because it´s a site not from 2, 5 or 20 people, but from many of us to enjoy robotics.

14

Abusive language on LMR

Paul,

I was here during the spate of foul language. I was also in the Navy. I expected such language in the Navy. I expect civilized language on LMR. In my opinion, it was a useless needless spew of bad language designed to test the limits of the new owners. Others have liken it to a mob mentality. One member trying to outdo the previous. Just my two cents worth but it certainly is making for a dreary LMR.

15

Time to move forward

Thank you all for your comments. We have explained ourselves and our position and have admitted to our errors. We therefore hope that we can turn the page and move forward for the good of the LMR community. We can argue and explain different points of view over and over again but we may never fully agree. We feel that moving forward is the best outcome for both sides.


We have reactivated all the accounts of members that had been temporarily blocked from the LMR community. As mentioned, no users were banned and some accounts were blocked for security reasons. Members who would like to reintegrate the community can now do so and we do apologize for the inconvenience caused.


Unfortunately, some members have decided to leave the community and have asked that all their content be removed. We are very sorry that members decided to leave but, it was there decision even if a hard one for them. These members are all welcome to return when they desire and visit LMR at any time.


We feel it is time to move forward and make LMR the number one place to share and learn about robotics.


Thank you,

 

Mario


16

That was a hard battle -

That was a hard battle - harder than it should have been - and I’m sorry for all the bad energy that has flown around.

Anyway, looking forward, the scene is pretty clean now IMO:

LMR has a strong team behind it now, very willing and capable to run LMR as a robottic focused community outstanding of a kind in the whole world as it is.

To make this magic happen day in and day out without any of us having to lift a finger or pay a dime, there’s another cost of sorts - but when all parades goes down, the cost (like that we have to respect that this is a business and then of course it has to be 110% family-friendly) - is really nothing IMO. Yes it was fun to have a website that NASA linked to, and still be able to act like a child on it - for me anyway - but been there, done that, there’s other places where I can live out that side of myself, should I feel like it.

I know for one how much efford it takes to run the ‘master-role’ of LMR - it’s not free, and I appreciate very much that it is now a task lifted by RobotShop.

Thanks for all the support on every level to all of you - if noone had reacted, I guess it would mean that nobody cared. And there was reactions, so we care, and thats good, and to me that’s that :wink:

(As we say in Danish: ‘Now that goat has ben shaved’ )

17

Hi ggallant,I was unaware of

Hi ggallant,

I was unaware of that. We’re all capable, of letting an expletive slip at the wrong moment, but excessive bestial behaviour is unacceptable.

Having said that, the new owners, would’ve been fully aware, that any change here, is likely to cause a mutiny.

18

Thanks Francisco,Everyone

Thanks Francisco,

Everyone should have a ridicule page.

19

Thank you for your comment Paul

Hi Paul,

We have received your feedback to make the rules as well as the 3 strikes warning system clear. We therefore went ahead and added information and clarified this system in the rules section of the LMR website. 

Thank you,

Julie

20

My apologies!!!

Dear: LMR

First of all I’d like to say I am sorry to all of LMR I offended with my forum topic about “Why fritz sold LMR”. I should never have made that forum topic. Honestly guys it kind of feels like LMR has not been the same since Fritz sold it. I have no idea what I was thinking when I made that forum and I just wish for LMR to be the same as it was. Thank you.

From: Noah