Okay, now that I’ve totally derailed Spacejunk’s thread, I’m starting a new thread for my mini-sumo.
My main site describing Seeker 2x:
http://www.huv.com/miniSumo/seeker2x/Seeker2x-07-small.jpg
http://www.huv.com/miniSumo/seeker2x/Seeker2x-02-small.jpg
Very fast, very low, very aggressive…
Very nice machining. 
Did you do that on a manual lathe?
I think I’ll be using the same motors on my new minisumo, even though I have been avoiding them because you and others use them…
PS I’m looking forward to your presentation on Finite State Machines. 
**I think I’ll be using the same motors on my new minisumo, even though I have been avoiding them because you and others use them… **
well use them!
Does mean we ALL use them that you should not! These are incredidable motors! Nothing beat’s them!
I use them in my new sumo!! Mine is rolling now. I made the motor mount plus the wheels!
FAST!! This motors bring a WHOLE NEW challenge in mini sumo!!
PS I’m looking forward to your presentation on Finite State Machines.
I am VERY jalous!!
I want the presentation on video and then youtube!
or a PDF, powerpoint, etc! I want it!
Have fun!
Jerome
yes I know I can google it and found all sort of tutorial!
objectmentor.com/resources/a … umlfsm.pdf
I don’t care I want to see Jon tutorial!
Jerome
Yes, my lathe is a manual Sherline. Don’t let the fact that other people use those motors deter you - they are on the market, and it looks like they are the best thing to hit the mini-sumo market in a while.
They are wickedly fast, though - controlling them and keeping the robot in the ring is going to be a challenge…
Hey Jon,
Why don’t you go after the 3 kg sumo community? That will really challenge your skills.
There are only 3 people I know that compete at this level in mini sumo.
I hate to say this, but these super-class robots are very good at killing the interest in mini sumo. Believe me, I have seen the number of competitors drop off significantly after one of these robots start competing.
3kg is where the “real” competitors go to. 
Pete
You’re saying that mini sumo is more for the beginers and when you get at a higher level you should go to 3 kg class cause you keep beating evryone and it’s no more fun?
It’s not a critic, I just wanna understand, that’s what you mean?
Ok… Sorry for the double post but 
I just saw this 3 kg class robot competition in japan. The robots are FLYING evrywhere and go SUPER FAAST! This is incredible
youtube.com/watch?v=KJ7DxdV5 … re=related
After like 5 minutes it’s getting real serious, before it’s amateurs 
I find minisumo to be a much greater challenge for building a robot because of the small size and power you need. It doesn’t leave room for huge power hungry sensors and rangefinders. You have to use well designed embedded electronics to preform well.
The CNRG has a section for novice minisumo as well as masters minisumo.
Also the regular novice kit bots all preform the same and lots of the competition is based on luck, not a good thing. Most of the time is spent is lock ups and sumo dance.
Funny, seeing this made me feel like I would not be competetive in mini-sumo, which I had previously thought of as a good entry point to competetive robotics. It seems like the sport now needs Beginner and Advanced groups to continue attracting new people. Maybe this is already happening. 
Hey Pete,
I actually have a 3kg sumo, and will be reviving it for next year. I’m going to put a Hammer onboard, and see if I can make it do some really complex behaviours…
These robots (mini sumos) don’t kill the interest at our competition, because we have two levels of competition - novice, and masters. I compete (along with a few other people) in masters. Most of the mini sumos compete in the novice class, where the robots are much more “normal”.
I know of at least two other builders in Canada who are right now designing and building “killer” masters mini-sumos to compete at Seeker 2x’s level at the 2008 games (Spacejunk is one of them). Things are going to get very interesting…
Jon,
Seeker III, is sweet, I can’t wait to go against it sometime. You should let your brother bring it to the Robothon for some serious competition. I will promise I would be nice. Seriously, this is one cool looking robot. Good job on it so far.
As for the other people’s comments about my comments, Mini sumo is a fun event. I have been competing in it for years.
I will agree that there are some challenges to making something that small. I challenged myself by building a couple bi-ped mini sumo robots. I also have a hexapod mini sumo that compete. If you want a real challenge, make a hexapod or a biped mini sumo.
They way I look at it, the 3 kg sumo event is orders of magnitude more exciting to compete in. The crowds find it far more exciting to watch than mini sumo. For those people that spend a lot of time building super-class mini sumo’s will get far more out of a 3 kg sumo for their efforts.
I even converted one of my humanoid robots (a RoboNova) to compete in the 3 kg sumo event. The crowd loved it.
Ask youself a serious question, why do you compete? is it only about winning? then build a super-class sumo to wipe out the 90% of the competition without any effort. Real fun right? Or is it the excitement of real competition? 3kg is more even across the board. Or is it the crowd getting excided about some hard hitting and sometimes scarry competiton?
Pete
The reason I compete is to validate my building, which is the part I really enjoy.
I really enjoy building mini-sumos - they are incredibly challenging to build, and write software for. I’m really looking forward to getting Seeker 2x out on my practice ring, so I can start to experiment with different algorithms (I’m a software developer, after all).
WoW… You must be a good programmer
I’m trying to learn but it’s long xD You right for Basic atom? In wich language do you right?
Well, I’ve been programming computers for 27 years now, and I make a living doing it. Building robots is interesting, but what I really get a kick out of is software development, especially as it pertains to robotics.
I program my mini-sumos in C. My more serious robots are programmed in Smalltalk.
From many years of experience, I have found that software only comes into play when competing with equally matched robots.
I have some sumos that use good old fashion brute force, and they are way underweight. So far I haven’t come across other robots that used software to beat them. They may be smarter, but incapable of winning the match physically.
My wife has built a mini sumo that uses stealth technology, and every other robot can’t see it to use software to win. The robot was designed to defeat IR sensors, and it does a great job at it. Software is useless against it.
From the looks of your robot and seeing what Dave and Bob have done, I see that your robot doesn’t need any software to win (other than staying on the doyho). That is why I suggest that you move up a level to 3kg. Putting all your talents into making this robot better isn’t going to make it better. With good edge sensors and a random motion sensor, it is already better than 90% of the robots out there, so you will never really be able to tell that it is truely a better robot.
Pete
You’ve never played in the CNRG master division then, were software makes all the diffrence and the other robots are all very competitive.
One big part of not going into 3Kg is the cost involved. An 800mAh Li-poly costs $30 while a suitable 3Kg 4000mAhLi-poly is $120 (or more).
I find the smaller size is a better test of my abilities, as Jon said.
Lee Szuba
Well, I’m not really interested in the bottom 90% of the field - that is the novice class. I’m interested in the top mini-sumos in Canada, and even North America. Right now Seeker 2 is one of the top mini-sumos in Canada, and I plan on building Seeker 2x to be able to beat it every time…
Its interesting - at the CNRG, the opposite is true. The 3kg class is pretty much a joke, with half a dozen robots that don’t work very well. When I ran Seeker 3 last year, one of the Sharp IR sensors on the front broke off at the beginning, and it basically acted like a moronic robot, hopelessly running around the edge of the ring. It never went out, and that was enough to win third prize.
In Masters mini-sumo, behaviour like that gets you eliminated almost instantly.
As Lee (spacejunk) said, masters mini-sumo is incredibly competitive. Seeker 2 only won this year because of a particular software behaviour that I had programmed in - it is always looking for the opponent, even in the first second after launching it. They changed the start rules this year, and the second place robot (Slicer), which wasn’t quite as flexible on the software front, got beat.
Jerome and I did a bunch of tests afterwards, and it is probable that his robot would have won had we had to start the “old” way. Seeker 2 is a bulldozer, and once it goes head to head with anything else the match is over, but its still vulnerable from the side or back.
>>The 3kg class is pretty much a joke, with half a dozen robots that don’t work very well
I won first place in the 3kg with my sumo Rhino. Even there I had some software issue. The program is not perfect and the robot was underweight because of the lipo battery. There where no competition in the 3kg.
video of Rhino are here
youtube.com/jeromedemers
In the master mini sumo there is a hell more competition!
**>>They changed the start rules this year, and the second place robot (Slicer), which wasn’t quite as flexible on the software front, got beat. **
That is true I did not know they changed the rules. Even there, Seeker2 has more momentum when he hits me.
**>>Jerome and I did a bunch of tests afterwards, and it is probable that his robot would have won had we had to start the “old” way. Seeker 2 is a bulldozer, and once it goes head to head with anything else the match is over, but its still vulnerable from the side or back. **
Seeker2 is laking of side sensor. But hey, he was build 5 years ago!
youtube.com/watch?v=KcgibHreTOE
youtube.com/watch?v=LJFalobmxKk
youtube.com/watch?v=eVs9ncUREzE
>>I see that your robot doesn’t need any software to win (other than staying on the doyho). With good edge sensors and a random motion sensor, it is already better than 90% of the robots out there, so you will never really be able to tell that it is truely a better robot.
I have to agree with this comment. At the speed it will move, you could go blind like blackwidow and win. But here in Canada they are more then one robot moving fast. I will also have attack strategie. I really can’t wait to 2008!
Hey Pete, I love you book! One of the best robotics book I own! I truelly love it and still use it for reference. I would love to see some detail pictures of your robots and your wife stealth minisumo. I already seen some but I want more! I even saw the one in servo magazine.
http://www.pdxbot.org/gallery/albums/competitors/8_petes_minion.sized.jpg
Is one 8.4V battery enough? Do you change it a lot?
This will be mine, I already have the mechanic all done, wheels are machined and I have already test drive this beast! I can push 30lbs! I order new motors to push less and be FAST FAST FAST!!!
The spec are top secret!
I am presently cleaning my desk ( after my room ) to clear my mind and work on my mini sumo. I have way to many project right now. One at the time!
It will also be a good time to upload other videos on youtube and a bunch of pictures! A other “to-do-list”!
good bye!
