Hi there! Thanks for looking at my request for help!
I am asking for help with my Robophilo. I bought the kit version about 6 months ago, and have completed work to the point where I am trying to load the fine tune motion file I have created, but am unable to connect to the bot/board (I had the kit assembled 6 months ago). There was 1 day a few months ago when I could connect, but even then I could not send the file. I have not been able to connect again. I have tried 5 different laptops across 3 different OS’s with hardware and USB serial ports. I have attempted to pursue an advance replacement board from Robobrothers/Airborne Models, but thus far have not been able to get one. The tech who I have been told would help me insists that the board is not bad, implying its something I am doing, but can’t do anything more than repeat what he says.
I purchased the PS2 controller and SDK with the bot, and have the ps2 software (version 1.1 I believe), and that does not provide a noticeable difference.
If you could help me get this thing going, I would be much appreciative!
Yes I have been in contact with the manufacturer. I’ve tried disconnecting the servos and everything else they have suggested that I try as well. I think the board has been fried or was defective to begin with.
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I purchased a Robophilo kit version about a year ago. There are a few steps in getting the kit to completion:
Physically assemble the robot.
Coarse tune the servos (by eyeballing & adjusting the joints).
Mess around with SDK, develop custom hardware and/or software
I’m currently stuck at step 4. For whatever reason, the mechanism to send the file involves interrupting the normal boot order and I’m not able to successfully interrupt the normal boot order and put it into the appropriate mode to be ready to receive the file. Direct control of the servos does work though, that’s how I was able to fine tune it.
I’ve been in contact with Robophilo/RoboBrothers/Airborne Models in an attempt to get technical support, and they have not been successful in helping me getting this ‘bot going. I was in contact with them within 2 weeks of receiving the ‘bot. Since this appeared to be an out of box failure, I requested an advance replacement of the board. They have staunchly refused, insisting that I send it somewhere for them to evaluate it and repair/replace at their option.
I’m not keen on that idea for several reasons:
We are having communications issues, never mind the language barrier.
They promised me a $20 discount for ordering the whole caboodle: robot kit, extra battery, RF controller, and SDK. They have not delivered on that promise.
They want me to send a $120 board somewhere so some random person (or THE engineer, I’m not sure which) can take a look, and at his discretion repair/replace the board. Their “repair” would consist of sending new firmware, something they have thus far not delivered to me so that I could try it here. I’ve asked several times for the firmware.
They have not issued any kind of an RA/RMA number to track the board once it is received. I am concerned that the board will be lost or misplaced and I will wind up having to purchase a new board because they “can’t find it”. Any time I mention this, they start talking about tracking info from the shipping company prevents a package from being lost.
I’ve been asking for a year for a replacement board.
A UK robot shop agrees that the manufacturer should send out a new board in this case, since there were problems from the get-go. (I asked them for guidance or help: they were kind enough to email Robophilo on my behalf).
Since I’ve been having this problem for so long, they might try to pull some kind of a charge once I send the unit it.
Related - The batteries I purchased a year ago are likely dead after not being used for almost a year. I’ll probably have to fabricate or purchase new ones. That’s like salt on a wound at this point.
I’ve contacted ROBOT and Servo magazines’ editors; they didn’t seem all that interested in helping me work through this. A writer from ROBOT was doing a special on the Robophilo and promised some help, but when I read the article, there were blatant lies in it (for example none of the software is open source), and I never heard form him again.
I have filed a complaint with the BBB. That hasn’t amounted to much either; the same back and forth. I think it’s listed as “customer does not accept resolution”. I’ve called a case worker, I think I have to call her again to get her on the phone.
I don’t understand the reluctance to send a new board. At this point, the bad publicity and time spent dealing with me has overshadowed the cost of the board. I have contemplated purchasing a new board on my own, but then I might wind up with another dud.
This was my first foray into the robotics field. I’ve wanted to get into robotics since I was a little kid. My second project was an R/C lawnmower. It’s up and running and I’m designing new safety systems for it. Once the safety systems are up and running, I’ll be creating a mobile phone app to control is with my phone instead of by RF. My point isn’t to gloat but to show I’m not a n00b looking for haxors with the kit.
I just want a new board. I don’t understand why RoboBrothers doesn’t stand behind their product. I don’t understand this customer “service”.
Thanks for taking the time to reply to my post! You guys have been very supportive in this matter, and I appreciate it. Depending on my finances, I may wind up just buying a new board from you guys.
Yes, I understand that. However, back when I read Maximum PC (a PC modder magazine) regularly, people would write to the magazine for help dealing with customer service issues with manufacturers. All published letters usually wound up changing the story from bad customer service to getting the proper level of service. I was hoping that they might pose an inquiry to RoboBrothers and RoboBrothers would take action, if for no other reason that to avoid bad press.
I wasn’t expecting free troubleshooting advice, although one of their writers/editors did start to attempt to help me in that capacity. The guy who wrote the glowing article on the bot said he would talk to Philip Chan, but as far as I could tell, that lead didn’t pan out.
In my industries (A/V, computers), firmware is a compiled package and not easily modified. It was my understanding it was similar for micro-controllers too; without the source you would have to be a real hacker to retro-turbo-engineer it and modify it. I bring this point up because all their documentation points to the firmware being available on the website and I cannot find it. They said they sent it to me, but I think they only sent me the new version, not the original… Long story short I was not able to successfully deploy what they sent me. They said time and again they might be able to re-send the firmware to fix the board and I would have liked to try it for myself.
I’m not worried about it being lost in the mail or via the carrier. I’m worried about it being lost after is is delivered. I sent the below to/through the BBB on case 57206122. It’s long, but explains why I am hesitant to blindly send the board back:
*[INDENT]I work for a medium size electronics manufacturing company. COMPANY NAME employs ~2500 people globally and does a modest $500 million or so annually. We had a bit of growth this year, so it might be larger than that now. We sell our devices to our dealers who install them for a profit. The cheapest devices we sell typically have an MSRP of over $1000, and we don’t have many different devices that cheap. Most off the devices we sell are MSRP $2000 - $5000; some going all the way up to $20,000. I work in the tech support department, assisting our dealers when they have problems with our gear. When a dealer calls in and has a problem with a new device, we troubleshoot over the phone, and if need be, ship them a new one overnight. We have been known to replace items not even in the warranty period! We have a generous warranty period of 3 years, which can be extended to 5 years under certain circumstances.
Obviously we have repair services and prefer to repair items when we can, but within the piece of equipments’ first year, we typically replace a device as it is good customer service. Many times I have replaced a device that I believed didn’t need to be because of other-than-technical reasons, including the dealer not having faith that they could get the product working. Each RMA has a number and is processed by several departments in HQ; RMA, Shipping, Receiving, Repair (Service), etc… At each stage of the process, the unit is tracked, accounted for, and noted in the system(s). Along with generating an RMA, there is one or more case files (in a CRM software) with detailed descriptions of the problem, attempted solutions, emails, drawings, program code, firmware version and any and all other details related to the case, project, and RMA.
Obviously you probably don’t care much about the company I work for. Obviously, COMPANY NAME is more in the high-end/luxury side of its’ market and Robophilo is on the budget side of its’ market. I chose to order from RoboPhilo because it seemed to offer the best value, and the closest competition was 2 – 3x the price. As my first foray into the robotics field, I wanted something that if I screwed it up, I would not be out thousands of dollars.
I ordered a complete kit, an extra battery, and the SDK. Aside from ordering spare parts or multiple kits, this was the complete product that you sold, and I could not order any more product from you. I understand that you will be releasing a gripper soon and have mixed feelings about that: I think it would be a great addition to the ‘bot, but mine is collecting dust, so there’s no point in throwing money away on something that doesn’t function (for me at least).
To accuse me of losing the board or physically damaging it is childlike, unprofessional, and you have no basis for such an accusation. Let me be clear: the board is still attached to the ‘bot, and the whole thing collecting dust in a drawer in my office. It’s been made quite clear that you don’t like me or this situation we find ourselves in. Without an RMA process, including an RMA number, I have to trust that whomever the anonymous person is speaking on behalf of RoboBrothers/Airborne Models (I don’t even know which company they are speaking on behalf of!) can coordinate the receiving of a $120 (not a small sum out of my checking account) piece of merchandise, pass it along to a technical person, the technical person understand the problem & attempt to fix it, he make a decision on what to do with it, and then he executes that decision. That is a long and articulate chain of events and asking for blind trust in such without a dedicated process or even a name of whom I am talking to is unprofessional and prone to failure; hence my concern for the board (a small, easily misplaced, part) to be “lost” somewhere in that process. If I was local to the shop, I would happily drive up to the store and see what we could work out both looking at the ‘bot. I have suggested several times to schedule a session with Philip Chan where he could view/take control of my PC to assist the troubleshooting process. He has ignored all such requests.
Due to our language and cultural barriers, I do not believe blindly sending the board back will result in any amount of success for me, so I want you to send me a new board, and I will send the old one back. At this point, your unwillingness to send a replacement board is beyond reason and makes no sense; technical- or business-.[/INDENT]*
Let me be clear: by advance replacement, I mean they send me a new board and I send the old one back. That’s a net 0; I don’t wind up with an extra board. Usually a credit card is used as a potential deposit and if I do not send the old one back they would charge me for it. I’m not asking for an additional board for free.
That’s understandable. However, I’m not the only person to have this problem. From reading on the net for the last year, it seems if there is a problem, this is a common one. I guess it’s a pretty slim chance of having a problem though, as most people on the net don’t talk about the bot. Someone told me it’s just because it’s not a popular bot.
My intent was not to be an ass about all this, but it seems like my expectations are off because I am new to this industry. That being said, I’ve got a year old bot staring at me collecting dust.
Mess around with SDK, develop custom hardware and/or software
I’m currently stuck at step 4. For whatever reason, the mechanism to send the file involves interrupting the normal boot order and I’m not able to successfully interrupt the normal boot order and put it into the appropriate mode to be ready to receive the file. Direct control of the servos does work though, that’s how I was able to fine tune it.
I’ve been in contact with Robophilo/RoboBrothers/Airborne Models in an attempt to get technical support, and they have not been successful in helping me getting this 'bot going. I was in contact with them within 2 weeks of receiving the 'bot. Since this appeared to be an out of box failure, I requested an advance replacement of the board. They have staunchly refused, insisting that I send it somewhere for them to evaluate it and repair/replace at their option.
I’m not keen on that idea for several reasons:
We are having communications issues, never mind the language barrier.
They promised me a $20 discount for ordering the whole caboodle: robot kit, extra battery, RF controller, and SDK. They have not delivered on that promise.
They want me to send a $120 board somewhere so some random person (or THE engineer, I’m not sure which) can take a look, and at his discretion repair/replace the board. Their “repair” would consist of sending new firmware, something they have thus far not delivered to me so that I could try it here. I’ve asked several times for the firmware.
They have not issued any kind of an RA/RMA number to track the board once it is received. I am concerned that the board will be lost or misplaced and I will wind up having to purchase a new board because they “can’t find it”. Any time I mention this, they start talking about tracking info from the shipping company prevents a package from being lost.
I’ve been asking for a year for a replacement board.
A UK robot shop agrees that the manufacturer should send out a new board in this case, since there were problems from the get-go. (I asked them for guidance or help: they were kind enough to email Robophilo on my behalf).
Since I’ve been having this problem for so long, they might try to pull some kind of a charge once I send the unit it.
Related - The batteries I purchased a year ago are likely dead after not being used for almost a year. I’ll probably have to fabricate or purchase new ones. That’s like salt on a wound at this point.
I’ve contacted ROBOT and Servo magazines’ editors; they didn’t seem all that interested in helping me work through this. A writer from ROBOT was doing a special on the Robophilo and promised some help, but when I read the article, there were blatant lies in it (for example none of the software is open source), and I never heard form him again.
I have filed a complaint with the BBB. That hasn’t amounted to much either; the same back and forth. I think it’s listed as “customer does not accept resolution”. I’ve called a case worker, I think I have to call her again to get her on the phone.
I don’t understand the reluctance to send a new board. At this point, the bad publicity and time spent dealing with me has overshadowed the cost of the board. I have contemplated purchasing a new board on my own, but then I might wind up with another dud.
This was my first foray into the robotics field. I’ve wanted to get into robotics since I was a little kid. My second project was an R/C lawnmower. It’s up and running and I’m designing new safety systems for it. Once the safety systems are up and running, I’ll be creating a mobile phone app to control is with my phone instead of by RF. My point isn’t to gloat but to show I’m not a n00b looking for haxors with the kit.
I just want a new board. I don’t understand why RoboBrothers doesn’t stand behind their product. I don’t understand this customer “service”.*[/INDENT]
As we discuss, you can mail the controller board with tracking to robobrothers. We are happy to check on it and replace the board if necessary.
If the chip or the board is damaged, it will not load any firmware. It need to be repair in our shop.
Robobrothers.
Are you currently in communication with the manufacturer of the RoboPhilo humanoid robot? If yes, they are in the best position to help troubleshoot. Did they provide any troubleshooting? Connecting the robot to the computer should be as easy as downloading the software, connecting the cable to the electronics, powering the board, connecting the other end of the cable to the computer, choosing the right COM port and uploading the code. Are you certain the board is powered properly and all servos are connected the right way? If it has taken this long, we suggest troubleshooting the controller board only and disconnecting everything else (all servos). This way you will ensure that there are no bad or reversed connections.
Another explanation might be that the board is fried - this can be from a static discharge; connecting the power supply or battery the wrong way; physical dammage etc. Another possibility is that one or more of the servos was installed incorrectly and when you first powered it up, the servo tried to move to a position which was not possible, causing a spike in required torque and then a spike in current - frying the controller.
Once again, we suggest disconnecting all servos and simply have the power supply and USB cable connected to see if the software downloads correctly. If this does not work, we’ll need a much more detailed summary of what happens when you try to upload.
We do apologize for any inconvenience and understand your frustration.
ROBOT and Servo Magazine are not affiliated in any way with RoboBrothers and would not be in a position to provide free troubleshooting advice.
In industry, there are certain things that manufacturers want to keep private to prevent their parts from being easily cloned / reproduced. It is very easy to reproduce hardware just by looking at it, but it is a lot harder to reproduce firmware; which is why most manufacturers would not simply “give it out”. Note that only a small handful of manufacturers are open source and would readily divulge all information about their products.
Perhaps registered mail?
Rather than wait any longer, we suggest mailing it to them. If the part was purchased from RobotShop, we can see if we have the option of sending it for you, though we don’t send many parts back to RoboBrothers, and as such the delay may be quite long. If you like this option, please contact us via the RobotShop support center and we will see if we can help.
They seem to be prepared to either fix or replace the board you have, but they need to determine that it’s in fact defective. Note that the controller is fairly expensive and simply sending a free replacement is likely not an option, which is why they would like to check it out first to see if anything is blown. Note that with most hobby robotics, it’s fairly easy for circuitry to be damaged, and as such, manufacturers need to protect themselves.
“As we discuss, you can mail the controller board with tracking to robobrothers. We are happy to check on it and replace the board if necessary.”
