imagine this on a pan/tilt system, used as a robot head, it has the antenna and everything. talk about killer style!
not sure how this will work with LM servocontrollers, but Im looking for a small camera I can use in a pan/tilt system as a robot head, and can feed info back to the MINI-ABB/SSC-32, or if there are different controllers with numerous servo/sensor ports as well, please recommend them here. Im going on a shopping spree, so please help me out here (keep the prices reasonable).
What are your thoughts on enabling vision to work with servos? I have something called the XBC which can control 4 servos and 4 DC motors according the the info on the camera (it tracks blobs of color, position, everything), and the camera is only 40 bucks.
I haven’t used the camera shown there, but one thing does occur to me with regard to mounting it directly on a pan/tilt platform:
The camera transmits on 2.4 GHz.
As a radio signal’s frequency increases, its sensitivity to polarity and other changes to the antenna increases, meaning that small changes in antenna orientation can make a big difference in the received signal. Since the antenna is built into the camera unit, if the camera is mounted to a pan/tilt platform, then the antenna will be as well, and it will change its orientation to the receiver every time you move the camera. This may make no noticeable difference at a range of a few feet, but as your robot gets farther away from your receiver, a slight change in the orientation of the pan/tilt platform could potentially mean the difference between a useable signal, and none at all.
Again, I have not used this camera, and cannot comment on its performance.
For all I know, it may work perfectly for you, or it may be a total waste of money.
I’m just pointing out a characteristic of radio waves at high frequencies.
I do not know the details of your installation, nor of your intended use.
Your mileage may vary.
It goes up to 1000 feet. But Im not about to waste 200 something dollars on this. A small 40 dollar camera that can feed info back to the robot brains is enough for me, if anyone can find one anytime soon.
Provided your brains have some method for dealing with composite video, catalog number VC-24] at All Electronics] isn’t a bad little sugarcube camera. I’ve used a couple of these before. They tend to be a little on the red-sensitive side, but are quite flexible and tiny. Looks like they only have a handful in stock though, and they’re a surplus-type outfit, so when they run out, it may not become available again anytime soon.
Well to be completely honest, I need a package here. Neither the ABB/SSC-32 have camera capabilities.
What am I trying to do? I’m trying to give my biped an onboard camera it can use to make decisions, Im not looking for a camera to feed info to a TV or a computer for me to see only, I need it to feed info to an onboard processor that can take the info and use it to control servos. All these cameras Ive found in these links, I dont see how any of then connect to a bot board.
Let me show you an example of what Im looking for.
At the top of this image, theres a tiny camera, feeding visual data into the gameboy’s LCD, which the programmer can look at to debug the camera code.
I need something like this, maybe not so big, but with a lot of servo ports, a fair amount of sensor ports, a camera attachment and an LCD to see what the camera sees.
Based on the capabilities you’re looking for, I’m guessing that there’s a lot of “Egad!” in your future. It sounds like you’re talking about real-time video processing in a compact unit that you can install onboard your robot, which will also handle all of the autonomous navigation and control tasks to boot.
I know of nothing that does this off-the-shelf, but should you find something out there, or modules that you can interconnect to achieve all of this, it isn’t going to be cheap.
im not sure if you have to be tethered to the computer with this biatch or not. and i plan to use the hited 5990, im not sure if this will be able to handle the servos properly, because i doubt POB would have HMI capability.
$300-$400 sounds a little on the low end for something like this, however, you could be at or below this price range, using off the shelf technology.
I have looked into this very idea you described; having a Mini-ABB sized board that could perform real-time video processing on the biped without the need for an external computer, and wireless devices.
The best solution, aside from designing your very own processor board, you can use RoboRealm’s free software that is run on a remote PC. You will need a camera, wireless video transmitter and a wireless serial port. Using RoboRealm’s VBScript, you can program specific actions based on the image processed.
I have not done this so I can’t tell you exactly step by step how to do this. Your best bet is to get the camera, software, and communication hardware and do some experiments. New developments like this can get expensive because its not very often you can get it right the first time. Be prepared to have stuff not work, but with some determination, you can bring it all together.
i dont understand, maybe im not making this clear.
why would i need wireless equipment? im not looking for the camera to send info back to ANYONE but the lcd and microprocessor it is on. did you look at the POB-EYE link i sent? thats exactly what i need, however, the microcontroller only has 6 servos which isnt enough, i need 12 minimum.
It’s not too difficult to find the processing power you will need in a module small enough to fit on a biped, but there is going to be some custom connection and probably circuit work to get what you want and make it all happen.
This would probably be a great application for something like a PlugA module from New Micros. Something like the Basic Atom PRO is not going to be able to handle onboard video processing, but the SSC-32 servo controller will more than handle your servo control. You would need something like this PlugA2138 for the processing power you want on board. This is programmed in ‘C’ so you are talking custom software unless you can find ‘C’ source or libraries to handle what you want to do.
I am not trying to discourage you from creating a solution with all the processing on your robot, but just want you to be aware of how much more work it will require to do things this way. You need a small hardware package for a biped, which is going to require more work, mostly in the software development. Which way you go depends on your level of expertise with the various components (‘C’ language, etc).
Going with a wireless setup would be far easier though, because your camera could send video back to RoboRealm (FREE) running under Windows. RoboRealm is one of the few programs I find worth using and tinkering with under Windows though, apart from a couple games I enjoy and my 3D CAD software. RoboRealm can process your video stream and send commands back to the robot to exectute the appropriate movements or combine this with processing of other sensor inputs. RoboRealm already has the processing built in for what you want to do and far more. This would require the least amount of custom coding and circuit work.There are video processing libraries available, written in ‘C’, as well as much more, and some are Open Source and freely available. You would have the camera sending video to RoboRealm on one video channel, and commands sent back to the robot on a different wireless link. Unless you use WiFi or some other higher bandwidth wireless setup, you need two different wireless links - one for output from the camera to RoboRealm and one for commands coming from RoboRealm to the robot. You could do this with a WiFi camera, but going WiFi is going to be more expensive.
What you want to do is actually somewhat of a dream project for me, but I am far away from ever starting on such a project. I would probably do the wireless RoboRealm thing first as a proof of concept since this can be done with all off the shelf components and much less custom programming.
That’s just my thoughts on this, for what it’s worth.
The robot has an onboard camera that can track shapes and color and the distance of what its tracking. Notice the robot isnt tethered to anything.
This is the kit im planning to buy: robotshop.ca/home/products/r … b-bot.html and Ill use the camera as a biped head and the bot board inside to control servos. However, my main problem is figuring out whether the botboard this comes with can handle hitec-5990 servos.
It’s not a question of whether a given servo controller can handle a specific servo or not. Servos used by the R/C community (and us here for robotics) need the same kind of signals for analog and digital, with the exception of some which provide feedback for position and such. Whether you use this servo controller, an SSC-32, or some other servo controller, it still has to provide the same signals for the servos.
Any analog or digital servo sold by LM or that is compatible with those sold by LM, will handle the HSR-5990TG servo just fine. Standard sized servos sold by LM are also fully compatible with the Servo Erector Set for future constructions.
Not all “standard” sized servos are created equal though, and some will not properly fit the SES brackets. Buy your servos from LM and be safe knowing you have full future compatibility. It’s best to use a separate battery pack for servo power if you can, and use a 9V to power the logic, if you can. Also make sure you power the servos from the appopriate battery for the servo model. Some servos are very picky about not going beyond 6.0V and some others are OK beyond that - you over volt at your own risk.
Im not sure what SSC-32s stacking capabilities are, or if its a smart move to stack a servo controller from 1 company onto a servo controller from anothers.
& could you quickly take a look at POBs servo controller and tell me what the SSC-32 can do that this one cant (besides controlling more servos)?
The only requirement the SSC-32 has is a serial connection, either TTL level or standard RS-232. It takes serial ASCII text commands for moving servos, including timed and group moves for moving several servos at once.
The SSC-32 also refreshes the servos periodically to keep them at the current position, which is required for analog servos. This is all built into the SSC-32 firmware, so it makes it extremely easy to use with ANY microcontroller that has a TTL level serial port.
I’ve been looking much closer at the POB products, and they have done some very interesting things. It is still unclear whether the POB-EYE has at least two serial ports, one usable with something like the SSC-32 (TTL level) and the other for console I/O (debugging, etc). I am guessing another serial connection (for an SSC-32, for instance) could be made from the HE10 connector on the POB-EYE, since I2C is also a serial protocol, the second serial port would likely use the same pins for RX/TX at TTL levels - but this is just a guess right now as it is not clear from the documentation at present. I am still researching this as I am also interested.
Okay, please dont hesitate to tell me ANYTHING you find out. Ive very interested in giving my biped vision with POB tech…just not sure if its safe to do it with my servos, since 5990s need min 6v (and i dont even know what regulators are on the pob stuff).
another thing about regulators, since the ssc-32 has a 5v regulator, voltage wont go over 5, then how will the 5990’s be powered? i know im wrong here so im looking for some sort of explanation.
also, instead of buying the mini-abb, we kinda have to buy the pob-proto boards if we want the camera to work, i hope it has the same capabilities as the mini-abb.
I understand you but you but you need to understand; vision control on a biped with everything done locally is going to be bulky. You need to realize the bulkiness of such a setup is going to cause the servos to strain and the whole bot be top heavy. If you really want to do advanced real-time video processing, you need to consider a different platform such as a rover.
If you want vision for a biped, you should go wireless OR design your own board that will stack with the Mini-ABB. Since designing a complex board as this is rather challenging, your best bet, as I have mentioned before, is to use wireless hardware and RoboRealm software.
The SSC-32 has a servo voltage supply input that is usually 6-7.2 volts and supplies only the servos.
There is an onboard regulator that can powered off of the servo supply voltage and provides 5 volts to the SSC-32 electronics and is not fed to any of the servos.
Alternately, the SSC-32 electronics can be powered off of a 9 volt battery that is regulated to 5 volts by the same onboard regulator.
Standard sized servos sold by LM are also fully compatible with the Servo Erector Set for future constructions.