Are we too many in here, should we start limiting acess?

Let's Make Robots
,
1

Hi everyone :)

Are we too many in here, should we start limiting acess?

I have had the same thoughts before; at a point I felt like we where so many in here, that it was impossible to follow everything & everyone..

It sure is now.

Last time I did & said nothing, and it turned out to be the right solution; So many cool people dropped in, people I would never have known else. I am thankful I did not limit acess then.

However, are we shooting ourselves in the foot by growing uncontrolled? >There is like more than 2.000 people in here every day! More thatn 2.000 individual visitors.. I do not "know" everybody, is this cool?

Let me hear what you say :)

It would be easy to just shout down for new members for a while..

2

Distinction

After a short break it is really difficult to catch up. Rik’s blog was a really good stop-gap for a while.

It would be a mistake to “severely” limit access, but there are, for example, folk posting “robots” which are NOT robots.

I had suggested that admins might have speciality areas which they might look after.Someone for robots, someone for electronics, etc…

Perhaps new members might be screened rather than shut out? Split the responsibility among a set of “moderators” whose job it would be to ensure that the newbies follow the guidelines.
3

Hmm… I guess we COULD say

Hmm… I guess we COULD say that new members would have to show robot they’d made in order to become members.

I think the absolute beginners knowledge we have accumulated should do, it can mostly be repetitions, people asking the same because they cannot find the old answer… And non-members can still access the site.

4

about everything

Frits states that it has become inpossible to read everything. I agree it has been very hard this last month or so. I still manage to read all new posts, but I find it hard to pay the same amount of attention to each and every one. I also find myself not responding to many posts where I would have responded before.

But is this a bad thing? Is quality really suffering from quantity? I find that others are now responding where I did not. And more people are receiving the help they seek here.

I, for one, am not ready to lock the gates to LMR. Not yet.

5

So true

There must be something wrong with the search. You’re right. I think all the possible questions have been answered, yet they still keep getting asked!

Trouble is there’s a risk of alienating a potentially great member who has a pertinent and novel question.

It’s a tough call. Maybe you’re expecting too much of yourself? Are you trying to read all the posts?

6

Good points.jeah, god

Good points.

jeah, god points.

I just want to keep the "belong to us" - not just to anyone, ours. But I guess we can be many. Hmm.

7

Thinning out?

How about the option, when a particular question has been answered, to delete all the crap which eventually led to the answer?

There must be endless posts, where someone asked a question and 15 people all give different answers, then fought about it for a week then eventually came to a conclusion?

How easily could members be allowed to move posts aroun, deleting the interim nonsense?

There’s plenty of my own posts I’d delete because once the answer was found all the stuff that came before it seems irrelevant.

…of course that doesn’t address the problem of themillions of new users.

8

It’s good to see the answer

It’s good to see the answer and the process invloved in getting to the answer. Deleting stuff simply deletes the method involved in gettting there.

I don’t believe that there should be any limit on new members, as old members sometimes become inactive, and new ones grow to begin posting themselves.

I believe that there should be some guidance, as BOA mentioned about “idaes” being posted as “robots” though. More abilities for admins to move posts where theny should go, or perhaps a directive to a FAQ top read before first ( or even tenth) postings.
9

some thoughts

First of all. I completely agree with Rik in that it is a bad idea to lock the gates. The last couple of months, however, it looks like the website has turned into one big shoutbox. If you don’t keep up with the posts for a couple of days, so many things have changed that the only sensible thing to do is wait for the next pulse ;).

I also agree with Frits when he says he no longer feels he “knows” everyone that contributes.

forum

I don’t believe that these issues are a “too many users” problem, but rather a “too many posts” problem or a “too hard to find stuff” problem. If the forum is moderated more intensely and scanned for double posts of questions, users will be forced to search better for an answer before a question is posted. On other forums you are forced to go to the forum before you post while on LMR you just create a forum topic from the “create content” menu item. Also moderators on other forums are more relentless when it comes to cleaning up nearly identical questions or threads. Perhaps improvements can be made to the search engine / interface as well.

front page

At the moment, anyone who updates his / her robot project or component is pushed to the top of the front page and some articles are updated a lot. I know I felt bad about that anytime I updated my robot page. Only the first post of a new robot and the last post, when it’s marked finished, will do. Posting a new robot on this site should remain exciting for everyone and having other members applaud anyones efforts is one of the main things that make this community great. New robot posts shouldn’t be bumped down by all the updates.

It may also be a good idea to appoint a few editors that will periodically update (a section of) the front page. They can keep a cool idea or a nice robot or blog that they bumped into on this site on the front page for a couple of days. I realize that will turn the front page into sort of a newspaper, but if it’s just the front page i wouldn’t mind so much.

limit access

Another option is to keep the forum open for any new member, whether they posted their bot or not, but to limit the other parts of the site. So that you can only blog or post components or walkthroughs, once your first robot is posted. However, those sections are pretty clean right now.

All in all I’d say there is room for improvement, but to limit the new users would be too much. This is still my favorite place on the web, just as it is.

10

My tu’pence

I’m a realtive n00b here and prone to shoot my mouth off, so ignore me if you feel I’m talking out of turn …

I’m not clear what you problem is Frits.

Too many visitors isn’t a problem if they are just reading; unless its causing costs to rise.

Too many posts? You don’t have to read them all. But there’s probably a lot of noise and repetition that hides the gems from the dross. The answer must be to extract the gems and find a way to show them off - eg tips/walkthroughs/wiki. Making these gems more prominent might cut down the dross. But probably not.

If you ever want to monetarise LMR - even if only to cover its running costs - more users is better.

Maybe you want to be more specific about the types of robotics that LMR is about. I’ve made a handful of Lego nxt robots (and will make a handful more I’m sure) because they are quick, easy and fun. I get the feeling that some people see this as frivolous because I’ve used neither soldering iron nor glue gun to produce them. The problem will be where will you draw the line. Are kit robots allowed if they plug together, or only if they need soldering? Are ready-made robots allowed eg Spyke?

Over the last ten years or so I’ve been an active member of maybe half a dozen online communities. Everyone of these (except LMR so far) has peaked and then withered. Unless LMR is truly unique, it will go the same way. In a year or maybe five years you will be wondering where everyone went and we will be having conversations about how to attract new visitors. Enjoy fame while it lasts.

If the problem is the number of repetitive posts, perhaps the answer is some sort of front desk for n00bs. They could post a question like “where do I start?” or “how do I connect an LCD panel?”; then a moderator or “senior” member of the community could say “look at node xxx”. No other responses would be possible so we wouldn’t start another thread and the question could then be deleted (or better still added to an FAQ). Only when youhave a robot or two under your belt could you create new threads other than “my robot”.

Mike

11

I’m kind of two thoughts on

I’m kind of two thoughts on this. First, just because a user has not posted a robot does not mean they aren’t working on one. For instance, one may be in the planning stage or post smaller modules that will eventually add up to a robot of some sorts. I think what can be classified as a robot is so varied that the argument can be made for most any project. As an example, I posted two projects that are in the design phase (a motor controller and LCD controller). Neither of those are robots but, together they can be used as components for a robot.

I wonder if we could declutter things somewhat if there were more defined areas setup. Examples would be entries for the different design stages i.e planning, parts sourcing, prototyping, construction and completed projects. As you move from one stage to the other you would flag your posts which would add them to the associated areas. There could be sub-areas for programming and electronics assemblies for those that have something to share but not yet a full bot.

My second thought is a warning system for those that are very vague with their questions. When a question is asked the individual should’ve atleast attempted to solve the problem first. They should post whatever code/design/schematic they have attempted instead of asking someone to do their homework for them. Repeat offenders can be sent to the timeout section (no posts allowed for a set period).

12

start here bot

I think there will also be an issue with new people trying to create their first bot, who have legitimate questions about the Start Here bot. If I wasn’t able to ask questions about it, I never would have finished mine. The walkthrough is great, but it’s not “all-encompassing, no questions ever needed” great (if that were even possible …). So what happens when someone is completely new to robotics, buys all the parts for a bot, and then gets to a point where they can’t progress without asking some noob questions?

I suppose we could make an ever-expanding FAQ …

13

FAQ
FAQ about building the bot, i mean. Not the site. That FAQ is great.

14

Wiki

There needs to be some way to recycle the questions and answers back into the tips and walkthroughs to improve them. At which point the question could be removed. Who’s now going to read all 200+ posts about the start here bot?

Mike

15

Some of the changes

Some of the changes suggested, like checking post subject lines for common vagueries like “please help” and reminding them about searching first, can certainly be done. I like the idea about checking for keywords in a new forum thread and running a search for those keywords, and showing them the results to help them find the answer before posting their thread. That’d involve more complicated hacking of the Drupal code which I try to avoid as much as possible, but it might be worth it in this case.

I definitely don’t think we should limit membership or restrict posting privileges until you’ve posted a robot – that will turn away a lot of people. I know if I came across an interesting site and they told me I had to be a second-class, restricted citizen until I met their requirements, I’d probably move along and look elsewhere. I definitely vote in the direction of nudging and guiding people in the right direction, even if some undesirable things still happen, rather than using force to prevent unwanted things from happening, and also preventing some desirable things from happening.

Dan

16

A lot of sites I’ve seen
A lot of sites I’ve seen require 10-15 responses to the forum before they are able to post their own topics/etc. Only one problem with this. Some people just post junk in spam threads to get in.

17

Wanted: nudgers and guides

I too would not want to be in a club that would have me as a second-class member only.

About nudging and guiding: this has been the way to steer people into the LMR culture. Or any friendly culture for that matter. With growing membership, the need for nudging/guiding is also growing. But also the number of nudgers and guides is growing. We just need to make it clear to the newer members that it is also their responsibility to keep this community clean and friendly.

There are many ways to get answers before posting a question.
There is an obvious need to point out these ways to the newly welcomed.

Perhaps the site-FAQ should mention the "many ways". And also that it is OK, or even desirable, to help newcomers find them.

Even if that would make both FAQs highly self referencing.

18

I’m also here for only a

I’m also here for only a short couple of months, but here is how I went to here, and my experience about LMR.

In November, I came back to electronic / robotic because I needed to develop my rainwater-tank monitoring/auto-refilling with tap water

I digged the internet to know what kind of PIC I could use to do that, and discovered the BS2 and Boe-Bot, I immediately bough my boe-bot on ebay

While looking for information about ping/srf05 sensors, I discovered the Wall Racers , so… LMR

At first, I stood there like a kid, all the bots here seemed really incredible to me :slight_smile:

I didn’t even dare to create an account, while reading as much as possible during weeks.

I felt I would be a second-class member even if nothing was preventing me to post stupid beginner questions.

At that time, I was following the Parallax Robotics with boebot manual, and thus playing with my boebot

One day, I went over, and creared my account, and my “BoeBot with no name” robot page

This is the moment I become a proud LMR member, it tooks me weeks and weeks feeling totally noob, fearing to post in here.

 

That egocentric story to explain my feeling as a LMR beginner,

I think a new member should have a clear set of beginner tips, helping him how to get into here, how to use the search bar before asking beginner questions, how to read a datasheet,…

I’m sure restricting or have second class members is really NOT a good idea, I wouldn’t be here today if it had been like that in november.

 

19

well
Well, I’m pretty new here and not the most spectacular 'bot builder but I have a suggestion. Why don’t we have a whole new section in the forum’s for the start here robot. In this “start here” forum we could have stickies on posts that are commonly asked such as my multiple beginner posts (that all got answered). This way we could avoid posts like “it dunt werk”. Anyway this is my idea.

20

I haven’t read all the

I haven’t read all the thread (sorry little time), but here’s my idea:

  • limiting is a bad idea, not seen in any other community. Indeed, from my point of view, the more, the better.
  • i know it was nice to all knowing each other, but that’s normal when a site gets big to loose that. and btw, the hardcore users are always a handfull anyway :slight_smile:

About content duplication: i think this can be address by making the site a little clearer. Example:

  • Better forum category. Current electronic/mechanics/etc make little sense. Better to subdivide per system, es: navigation, sensors, motros, etc, and by board (picaxe, arduino etc).
  • Better search function. Maybe it can be improved in some way.
  • Moderators: have people monitor the forums and block repeated thread, redirecting the user to the relevant older thread instead.
  • Serious rating of content: interesting articles should have more space. This is true for all stuff: robots, blog entries, forum topics, etc. They could be rated either by users or by moderators (or both).
  • Better robot description: sometimes peoplejust upload pictures and two lines of description. The descripton should be more involved, explaining better how the robot was build, just as if it was a “build it yourself” guide. This will help noobs asking less obvious questions.