Perfect Kurte, looking forward to see it.
Are you still using DipTrace or you moved to something else ?
Thanks, Will see when I get the next batch(s) in. May be a week or two, which is probably good as it leaves me more time to get back to my previous diversions.
Yes, still use Dip Trace. Actually right now I am using their Beta version, which has a few nice features, like more formats supported to generate 3D stuff.
This morning I also played around a bit, to see what a TeensyDuino might look like. That is I know that LinuxGuy would love to have a set of Arduino Headers, so wondered what it might do to layout. Several options. Many of different options and possibilities. Not sure I will do any of them, but did take a little time this morning, importing in the headers info and look at what options one could take: Example:
In this Quick and dirty, I increased the width to 3" (so 3x3), which implies it won’t fit in some smaller robots. So far I left the same hole pattern, but would probably change.
Questions and thoughts:
0) How important are the Arduino Headers? For me not as I have hardly used them, except on megas to add the stuff I put on the Teensy board before. But others? Note: I have more pins on these, then BBD as to match what is now on Arduino Uno
- Size, how important is it. For me I like to keep them simple. Is Square better, or better to increase in length instead.
- The above picture has the Arduino Headers backwards to normal boards. I did it as, it better matches the pins on the Teensy. I want USB connector on outside of board.
- Do I keep the AX Buss. For me yes - not sure if I need to add possible 4th pin… Probably can cut down number of connectors, as may want to use external powered BUSS, when I am mixing AX and RC servos… Could add another Power connector for AX but takes space
- XBee - I like using, I cut it from the above picture…
- 3 Pin Headers, can potentially reduce height by moving one sides of connectors to far end, like BBD or should I try to maximize and have as many 3 pin connections as possible. Granularity of choosing what voltage to go to IO pins.
5a) If I am not putting an XBee on this board, should I still put a 3.3v regulator on board, If not, should I then bring out the 3.3v output from the chip to feed stuff some pins? If so should I not do this on very many of the pins and instead mainly feed +5v?. Regardless should at least wire it to the standard 3.3v Arduino shield header. Should IOref be 3.3v (this is what I have now), or should it be 5v? Should I hardware it or should I make it selectable.
5b) Should I always connect USB power? Or should I optionally have jumper for this. If so you probably have to remove the jumper from bottom of Teensy…
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Should I try to remove some of the jumpers and maybe hard wire some of the IO pins, like Sound, like Resister divider for Voltage checking (Could use one of the Analog Read only pins for this).
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Other features, needed or not. I want some sound, could simplify to Resister/capacitor to drive. Leds/Buttons? I did not put any on my first Teensy board other than the standard D13. Needed? How many (I think 3 is overkill). I2C connector like BBD? Note: I have the picture above where SCL/SDA were added to the Arduino Headers like they were for UNO (rev 3), likewise IOREF.
Thoughts? Not sure if I will do more on this or not, would like to get back to BeagleBone Black and Odriods
Kurt
Not sure why, but I hacked on the Teensyduino prototype a little more today.
Right now, The board is 3x2.7. Could maybe squeeze the height down to 2.6…
In 3d here, the bright yellow connectors are for shields. Bottom 3 pin connectors are the digital. The ones on the outside on Right are the standard analog, plus some additional analog. 2nd row has most of the pins from the bottom of the Teensy. The one on the Third row are the Analog only (3.3v only) IO pins. Stiall have speaker, 5v and 3.3v regulators All of the optional jumpers are on the 2x5 just right of the Teensy. Added one switch and one led…
Not sure if anyone would be interested in this type of layout? I still need to add some labels and the like if I go any farther.
Kurt
I do like it.
Now make the edge round (i know… i always complain about details that serve no purpose…)
I think this it the post where you have the fewer words… 
Yes exactly like that, it look more professional that way. (From my point of view)
The lower right corner connector are serial right ? Standard type of connector for something ?
Yep, the two connectors toward the bottom right are for Half duplex TTL level servos like the Dynamixel AX-12 servos. My other board I added an optional 4th pin to them for a full duplex TTL servos. I think Dangbu servos are that, but don’t have any of them… The other Robotis servos that have 4 pins are RS-485 and I again don’t have any of these and have not added a RS485 like driver, which again is possible, but don’t have any, nor want to solder in those small IO pins…
The one a little to the right of the upper dynamixel connector is an I2C 4 pin, which matches what we put on the Botboarduino. Looking at it now, where SCL/SDA are reversed versus the ones on the Shield headers. Thinking about it now, I think I should rotate my connector 180 degrees and shift it such that those two pins are easier to route… (They are routed already, but…).
But not sure I will order any yet anyway… (have 8 of the other boards coming…). But if you are interested, can create gerber files that you can send to OSHPark or Seeedstudio or … Plus have a parts list.
It is also a possibility that one can have Seeedstudio (or others assemble). Not sure of the cost. Also if having someone assemble, would also possibly redesign slightly to use smaller parts (0805 or 0603 instead of 1206), I went bigger on these to make it easier to hand solder.
Since I got it that far I thought I should at least post files…
Top level of zip file has all of the Gerber like files that should work for either board fabricators I mentioned. There is also sub-directory with Dip trace design files as well as an excel document with I think reasonably accurate parts list. Note with DipTrace. I am using the beta version right now. So you would need to use it as well to view files.
Kurt
TeensyDuinoV001.zip (109 KB)
Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss! 
The only problem I see with this layout is that shields are very likely to cover that one set of 3-pin connectors. Bad. I’d lengthen the board a bit. A longer board is going to be easier to fit on smaller robots than a wider board, in most cases, at least with most of the Lynxmotion robots.
Follow the examples set by the design of the BotBoarduino, if you have any design questions. 
The BotBoarduino is a VERY well designed board!
If you do a redesign with ALL the 3-pin headers clearing the Arduino shield headers, I’d love to have all the data so I can get some made for myself at least.
P.S. You need a KickStarter, or other crowd funding thing for this. I’ll be first in line to fund it!
8-Dale
Oh, YEAH! The Arduino shield headers are more important than I think you understand. They not only allow for adding on more functions to your existing board, but they also bring the possibility for adding custom shields as well.
Your design skills are UBER AWESOME on this!
You really need to fully share this with Paul (of PJRC), if you haven’t talked to him about it yet.
If you need more board space for something, go with a longer board, rather than a wider one. A longer board is much more likely to fit on smaller robots, because they will generally be narrower, than wider, based on what I’ve seen over the years. I watch for new robot designs very closely.
I answered this above.
Also answered above.
I think this is a good move. Some shields can over hang quite a bit, and reversing the headers will likely solve this issue. This is my only issue with the BotBoarduino design.
Keep the AX bus. Having this options is good! I can guarantee, if you make these as a real project (as in mass production, via Kickstarter or other), it will make this more likely to get fully or over funded. I seriously think this would make an excellent candidate for a Kickstarter or other crowd funding campaign.
This is a nice feature, but can be handled by an add on Arduino shield. I’d leave it off.
A longer board, which I am in favor of, could solve both of these issues pretty easily. You could reduce the height and maximize the number of 3-pin headers the board can accomodate. Do as the BotBoarduino - jumper selectable voltages for 3.3V/5V. This solves many issues I have with other board designs, and I love this feature of the BotBoarduino!
You should keep the 3.3V regulator. Please see my answer to #5 above.
Please see above. Jumper selectable IOref??
Jumper select between USB and external power. It’s another GREAT feature of the BotBoarduino!
The BotBoarduino has all optional features, like speaker, and LEDs/switches, with a jumper enable disable. I never use the onboard LEDs or switches, because I almost always need ALL the I/Os for other stuff. I’m already pushing it, with my SES Robot. This is why I always look for I2C or SPI as a feature in modules, breakout boards, and chips, that I use in projects. My only exception to this is I always leave the speaker enabled.
No user LEDs or switches. I2C connector/jumpering like the BotBoarduino, SDA/SCL also like on the Uno. The Uno is the current standard for Arduino interfacing, and should not be overlooked.
I honestly can’t think of anything else that could be done to this board design to make it UBER useful for the Teensy3/3.1.
8-Dale
I did a quick and dirty where I extended the length by .4". Moved some stuff straight right and did some quick cleanup of the etches as they did not just move cleanly…
If I were to go this route, I think it would need more radical changes. Again no functional change from the other one I posted (Also this is a different file as I personally prefer smaller, but:)
Also note on fabrication costs. Witch Seeedstudio all the same as they all fit in 10cmX10cm ($20.90 + shipping for 5).
From OSHPark they charge $5 per square inch. So My other board: 3x2.3= $34.50, for zip file version 3x2.7= $40.50 and for the above 3.4x2.7=$45.90
From Bay Area Circuits (order inside of Diptrace): this new one for 3 is: $82.62 (10 day)
PCBFabexpress - used on most of my other boards: 10 days for 3: $99.30 (prices went up, used to be $75 for 5 days…)
What kind of other changes would be required for this to work? How radical? I wish I had a couple of these right now.
Please, please, PLEASE, do the rest of the work that you say needs to be done to make this version of your board usable. I would gladly pay for the fabrication of this (or the next) set of boards next month, if you have a PayPal account.
8-Dale
I have not used PCBCart before, but my guess is they will be in the same ballpark as Seeedstudio as both are from China.
Dale: minimal, nothing would have to be changed, just there is blank space probably looking for something to fill it 
But thee are possibilities, like maybe move the Analog only ones to one of the edges, or maybe instead move the first group of ones from second row to bottom or… and move others around… Always possibilities.
As for ordering. Right now I don’t need these as I have the other design coming, that I will be using. But if someone else ordered some and wanted to send me one, or the like, I would probably assemble one. As for ordering anyone can do. Example with the zip files I uploaded for the more compact version, you can go to Seeed… or OSH web site, Start the process, type in width and height, then go to 2nd page, and browse for zip file, which uploads and in the case of OSH, they verify dimensions and the like and show you what the gerbers look like. You then say yep that is it and place the order.
I do see a minor error in the top silk screen where I did not change the name of one label to say AX (or AX Bus)… May do that and update the zip files. Also in that Zip file I have excel document with parts. I need to double check parts again. In particular the estimate of how many single and double row breakaway headers are needed.
Also curious about how much of the board I could have assembled by Seeed in a prototyping type. That is you can have them assemble if your parts are from their standard parts list. (I talked about this a little on the Trossen postings). I am pretty sure I could get most of the stuff changed that would have all the resistors, transistors, diodes, capacitors, Voltage Regulators, and the like assembled (not sure of cost). You can do this on prototype levels (up to 5). Don’t know the cost. You can actually have them do whole boards with other parts, but minimal order is 100 boards. Obviously I don’t need 100 boards nor do I want to go into business to sell them… But if others do…
I did order from them for my SSQ quad lower plate.
Integrate a power distribution board.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8090/8537091441_26869c510f_z.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8105/8537087553_f035a2df55_z.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8094/8537083853_c6fb1a1d6c_z.jpg
What might you fill that blank space with? Possibly a nice I2C accelerometer/magnetometer (compass) such as the LSM303, or maybe a separate accelerometer and magnetometer (compass)? Robots can always make use of those. It’s just one idea. You already have a buzzer/speaker on there, don’t you? Maybe a couple more AX servo ports?
Alright, Kurt, if you complete this design and make sure all the relevant data is in the ZIP file, I will order the boards and send at least one to you.
If you’ll finalize this design and get me the data, I am going to get some of these made. I want at least two or three for myself, and maybe a couple extra in case I screw up a build. I have two robots now. Hopefully, I will have one rolling around on the floor sometime today or tomorrow.
8-Dale
This morning I have played around a little more with the wide version and moved all of the IO pins to 2 rows instead of 3. Had to reroute lots of the IO pins…
I need to go do some other stuff right now. The one other thing I was thinking of adding, if it turns out not to be too hard, is the ability for a 2nd Power connector. Probably near the AX connectors.
The rational is that for most of these servos you use a 3s Lipo battery, but if you are also wanting to use RC servos, most of them are 6v or a few may take 2s lipo. If I do, would put probably have the ability for just one connection with probably double jumpers to carry the current…
Side note: Got notification today that my Seeedstudio fabrication has shipped. Will be interesting to see which boards I receive first (Seed… Or Osh…)
Kurt
FYI - If I am looking right at the PCBCart site, and I try to enter the information to fabricate 5 of these boards with 12 day, I think it comes out to $100
seeedstudio is quite hard to beat…
I think I am pretty much done with this version. I will generate the gerber and drill files and the like, run them through the other gerber program viewmate and verify that it does not find anything I missed and then post.
This version I put in double power inputs like VL/VS with 5mm contacts. One is directly going to AX servos, the Other directly going to the +5v side (VL). Each have double jumpers to VServo
FYI - When I did the previous checking using ViewMate, I decided to let it upload the documents to pentalogix to get a quote: Got the quote, but probably won’t use:
For 2 or 5 boards you have 1day ($57.50 each) or 2 day ($46 each), if You order 10 (price goes down some best is 10 days $31.05 each)… So you can configure several ways. Have all 4 jumpers in place and simply use to jumper from one board to next. If you have AX and 6v Servos, remove the AX to VS jumpers and you can have your 11+v going to those servos and 6V or like going to RC…
So I added 2nd Voltage Divider and Rearranged the jumpers. The two associated with AX are at bottom, so if you are not interested in AX, you can simply leave those off, plus leave off connectors, resistors… You can also choose to only have 2 or 4 pin connector.
The only other things
I was thinking of adding, was toward upper left of board. There is the ability to remove the USB power from the VL power of the device (what exactly it does I am not 100% sure). But could rig up similar to Botboarduino, Maybe instead of a 3 pin connector(ext vl USB), would have two sets (VL USB) (EXT USB), such that you can easily rig several different ways. Again not sure if this is functionality I need. (Botboarduino has this, done like earlier Seeeduino boards, but later Seeeduino boards as well as Uno don’t)
Also option toward upper mid of board, could put in 3 pin jumper to change IOREF to 5v or 3.3v
TeensyDuinoV001.zip (154 KB)