RoboNova, can it do more than just move?

robodude666 · July 5, 2006, 11:49pm

Well well well. What have I learned? For one, if you ask a lot of questions expect to get a really long reply Thanks for not killing me yet (once I actually get my robonova and mini atom bot board there will be more fun questions to answer Now for my reply!

Yea, after I posted my post before I went and looked at a few manuals and such. Turns out page 13 of the SSC-32 manual has examples!

' Second position for step sequence, and time to move, put in your values here.
rax=1600: ray=1600: rkn=1600: rhx=1600: rhy=1600
lax=1600: lay=1600: lkn=1600: lhx=1600: lhy=1600
ttm=1000
gosub send_data
pause ttm


' This sends the data to the SSC-32. The serout is all one line, no Wrap!
send_data:
serout p0,i38400,"#0P",DEC rax,"#1P",DEC ray,"#2P",DEC rkn,"#3P",DEC rhx,"#4P",DEC rhy,"#5P",DEC lax,"#6P",DEC lay,"#7P",DEC lkn,"#8P",DEC lhx,"#9P",DEC lhy,"T",DEC ttm,13]
return

I really love this! And I think this is how I will do it myself. Have the SSC-32 connected to a pin on the mini atom bot board and in my bot board code have a sub function thingy called “send data” for example which will serout the new servo positions. in my main code, i will have a variable for each servo and just change the servo’s value when i want it to move. then just sub send_data in, get the ssc-32 to move the servos and on we go with our lives!

One thing I don’t exactly get is the order of the things in the ]. For example:
“#0P”,DEC rax,
is the first one the pin’s id name on the SSC-32? and i am guessing the second is the value for that servo and its saying that this is a dec number and not binary or whatnot.

Power! Right… “new roboteers deal with” Hey Hey Hey! You calling me a newbie? I only recently given thought to power issues. I know that without enough power the IR and lcd wont work well at all. IR will give back really wrong sensor readings and that the servos wont have enough power to turn which may damage them (i am only guessing. having a 1 or 2lb robot pushing down on your little gears while not having enough power to turn your gear must suck ).
Power options. Lynxmotion sells a few different batts.
7.2 Volt Ni-MH 1600mAh Battery Pack (5.7oz)
6.0 Volt Ni-MH 1600mAh Battery Pack (4.9oz)
7.2 Volt Ni-MH 2800mAh Battery Pack (11.3oz)
6.0 Volt Ni-MH 2800mAh Battery Pack (9.34oz)
And the 6 Volt / 1000 mAh NiMH battery which comes with the robonova. (not sure the oz. my guess is like 4oz?)

11.3oz for 7.2v and 2800mAh my god! That is like .6lbs of weight! I think that the 7.2v 1600mAh battery pack should be good enough, right? It may be like an extra 1-1.7oz heavier than the robonova’s stock battery and also finding a place for it may be a problem since it seems very um long and big… Think it may fit into the area where the battery currently is? I think that it should be a good area if its deep enough to fit the battery pack. When looking at photos of people build it, I didn’t notice that area being used up for anything. Just empty space up there.

I guess it is worth a try with the stock battery from the robonova. And,

You thinks correct

“Wait a second. is the 9v it uses for logic like a normal 9v battery?”
“Indeed”
I am good

If the mini atom bot board and ssc-32 can fit onto the back of the RoboNova AND it can run with a 9v and the normal 6v 1000mah… Do you think that it wont all be too heavy for the robonova? The mini atom bot board is like .2" smaller in one of the dems but with the ssc-32 right under it, the board becomes like an inch or so higher which may cause the robo to be a bit more unbalanced? Though I think making the servos at the hips or somewhere turn the body a bit more toward the grown might help it. So you may need to rewrite all of the code for it At least you got it running on a cool board

Thanks a lot mate. I added you to AIM a few days ago and I haven’t seen you on yet. I added like 3 different alarms so I wouldn’t miss you But none of them rang yet!

I will buy a robonova sometime within the next few weeks. I am still only 3/4ths there and I am thinking of selling my $450 PMP (mp4) player to raise up the other $250 I need + money for the mini atom bot board and all those cool sensors

I will poke around some more manuals and do more reading Is there any books or any sort of reading you suggest for me to look at with more info about all this lovely stuff?

nickreiser · July 6, 2006, 1:58am

Well, I’ve been having trouble trying to strangle you through this phone line.
For some reason, my hands won’t fit.

Don’t worry, just look at how many posts I’ve got.
<----
I’d say about 85% of those are questions.

Sweet.
This one’s easy to answer.
What you’re looking at is a muddled version of what the SSC-32 wants to “see” when you “talk” to it.
Here’s an example…
If I want to send servo #0 to the exact center and servo #16 all the way to one side, this is what I’d send to the SSC-32, if I were going to be all direct about it:

#0 P1500 #16 P750 <cr>

You don’t actually need those spaces in between.
“#0” corresponds to the servo pin labeled “0” on the SSC-32.
“P” is what you put before the position value to indicate it as such.
“” is a fancy way of showing a carriage return.
The carriage return tells the program that’s going to send the data to actually send the data.
See the SSC-32 manual for more examples as well as other commands.

Energizer just came out with an AA-sized 2800mAh NiMH cell.
I’ve been using 6 of them (7.2V 2800mAh total) in battery carriers on my biped.
They’re probably close to the 7.2V 1600mAh pack’s weight.

For most of what you said you’re doing, yes, it should do.
Check with someone, though.
I’m not sure if those servos will be OK with 7.2V.

Well, I’m not sure if it’ll fit.
The difference between the 6V and 7.2V is just one extra AA battery.
Hey,Nova people!
Yea, over here!
::waves::
Someone to grab an extra AA battery and try to jam it in there.
Does it fit?

Sounds like my head.

The stock battery will be fine until you start tacking on too many sensors.

You can probably get away without the 9V.
You can power the logic portions off of the servo’s batteries.
The only reason not to go that route is in case your servos overdraw the battery.
If that happens, the electronics will not get enough current and they’ll reset.
No biggie, but your biped will probably fall on it’s face.
9V’s are the way to go when you’re newbie, since they minimize the chance for odd failures.

C’mon, now, that’s just silly.
Even if that was .2" of lead (Pb), d’you think that’d really tip the biped one way or another?

I haven’t tripped your alarms because I’m very sneaky.
Actually, I’m on AOL (which is my ISP) for about 3 hours (at least) every day.
We’re probably just getting time-zoned.

I will buy a robonova sometime within the next few weeks. I am still only 3/4ths there and I am thinking of selling my $450 PMP (mp4) player to raise up the other $250 I need + money for the mini atom bot board and all those cool sensors

Yea…
My “toys” went out to the local flee market quite a while ago.
I’m out of stuff to sell.
I sort of need my shoes, after all.
And, I’ve already sold off my grandmother and my soul on ebay…

Yep.
Mini ABB manual.
SSC-32 manual.
Definitely the Robonova manuals, especially familiarizing yourself with the Nova’s BASIC language.
And, don’t forget… forums!
I’d suggest reading old posts from the Nova sections at lynxmotion and robosavvy.

Go ahead…
Bring on the questions…
I can take 'em!

robodude666 · July 6, 2006, 3:53am

That was also a mighty fast and long reply. Not much for me to say since everything was answered.

Oh yea? Look at mine. I’d say about 100% of those are asking questions

I read the mini atom bot board, robonova, robobasic (reason for using a different micropros. was to get away from robobasic… dont like it much. im a c++ type of guy, im a sucker for { } lol) manual several times. closest I can get to a robonova And by several times… I mean like 10 or so times each. And that includes like all 100+ pages or so. depending on the manual. mini abb is rather small i think. not much in it same as ssc-32. robonova and robobasic are pretty long. the basic atom pro manual is like 168 pages. worst manual i ever read in my life too. think their “newer” one with examples is a bit better though.

AOL sucks… don’t be cheap and get verizon or ool. its more costy but at least you can watch videos at normal speeds and dont have a ■■■■■■ isp Oh, and I live in New York. Your in NJ as I understand. Didn’t know there was a timezone difference
Is the AIM in your profile correct? Because seriously… My computer is on the whole day and has been for the past week. And it has never seen you on… It says that you have not been online ever. (I use trilly and it has a little thing that says last time user has been seen.)

Oh, I lied. I do have more questions The stuff talked about in the programming section of the SSC-32 manual is basically this stuff?
#0 P1500 #16 P750
the SSC-32 uses those funky commands to know what servos to move .etc? I thought that was the cmd line based programming… Like if you have it connected to a terminal and you just want to test it and stuff. I didn’t think it was actually using it. I guess I will have to look at more examples and stuff.

Lets see. I need like $900 for a robonova (found a sweet deal . no paypal though gunna have to bug my mom for her credit card later haha) and I will need $115 for mini atom bot board. also like 15$ for a battery (just in case) and like 40$ for cables and other general hardware. Oh, and like another 40$ or so to buy new tools and stuff. Saw a nice tool set at my local store… Thats a total of $1110 and lets say $100-$200 for shipping (YES! It must be OVERNIGHT!! I won’t be able to sleep for a freakin’ week if it isnt! But all good, my mom normally covers shipping and I just add it for the difference of overnight and normal. normally $30 I add in. Sucks my birthdat is far away ) I have um $734… Just $376 away. Sweet. Sorry about that last paragraph… I was ranting to myself. If you or anyone want to help the “Help robodude666 get a robonova fund.” Feel free to pm me for my paypal At times I wish I had a cheaper hobby/obsession.

[edit]
I am guessing that any “programming chip thing” that starts with BASIC will be programmed in a form of basic? And if I want to use C/C++ I would need something like OOPIC-C? Does the mini atom bot board function better with a basic atom “programming chip thing” ? Or is that just writen on the website to sell more basic atoms? lol

nickreiser · July 7, 2006, 4:33pm

Pretty much.
The SSC-32 wants to see everything but the actual characters “<”, “c”, “r”, and “>” (put them together and you get “”).
The " is just the LynxTerm’s way of interpretting a carriage return.
It’s shown this way because a carriage return is pretty much the equivalent of pressing the :ENTER: key, which is difficult to visually show.
The way the carriage return is represented varies between compilers/micros/what have you.
In C, it’s usually “/r”.
I can’t remember what it is in BASIC, but it’s probably it’s ASCII equivalent number (13, if memory serves).
Check the code examples and you’ll find what I’m blathering about.

The Atom probably does work best with the Mini Atom Bot Board.

The original OOPIC is supposedly quite crappy.
However, there’s a new one out that sounds quite a bit better that might (I haven’t heard yay or nay, yet) work with the ABB.

If you like “C” and don’t mind getting your hands a bit dirty, I’d recommend skipping the ABB and getting yourself a PIC, AVR, ARM, etc…
I’m working with my first PIC, right now.
I like it because there’s a cheap programmer for it at Sparkfun that works with my USB->DB9 cable (a blessing in itself).
Plus, all the software that I need comes free.

The nice part is that you get to make your own board with only what you want/need on it.
You won’t have to worry about mounting it on your project either, since the size/layout is entirely determined by you.
Also, after the initial expense of the programmer (60 bucks, in my case), everything else is as cheap as dirt.
My 40-pin high-end micro is only $7.50 a pop.
In fact, it’s really easy to get free samples from them.
Compared to the expenses of many good BASIC micros, you end up saving $ quite fast.

The “bad” part is that you’ll need to learn a bit about electronics, but that’s fun.
You can check out my PIC Control Board thread in the projects section if you’re interested in the nitty-gritty of that sort of thing.

robodude666 · July 7, 2006, 8:13pm

Well, Robot Dude on the first page said that the OOPIC-R will never be able to control 16 servos. What makes the Basic Atom better for the Mini Atom Bot Board than the OOPIC-C? They both seem to have the same amount of memory. As I understand the OOPIC-C can be as easily plugged into the Mini Atom Bot Board. Would the OOPIC-C not be able to be used with te SSC-32?

And honestly, I don’t really want to make my own board. I don’t have a fancy college degree like some of you do. And I would rather just buy a premade board like the mini atom bot board. Later on when I actually know what I am doing and feel that the mini atom bot board or oopic-r/II or whatever board does not fit my needs I will make my own. But for now without a fancy college degree, I will stick to premade boards

And seriously dude! Do you EVER get on AIM?! I have you added on your “folder1987” account. Do you use it? Or is it dead and used to throw people off track? =/ Because that plan works…

Looked at your PIC topic. Started reading it. It is very long, and I got lost very fast.

nickreiser · July 8, 2006, 1:15am

I’m probably the worst person to answer this.
::help!::
Well, I suppose it’s because the Atom’s firmware/libraries/whatever has been rewritten to use a much smaller percentage of the micro.
You’re getting confused between controlling directly and sending strings to the SSC-32.
Sending the instructions to the SSC-32 can be done by just about any microcontroller.
Directly controlling (i.e. plugging servo into the BotBoard and not the SSC-32) is only possible if the micro has the necessary hardware/software/firmware.
It’s only possible in large numbers like… say… 16 if the micro is efficient at PWM generation.

In essence, definitely go with the SSC-32 if you get an OOPIC.
You should still probably go with an SSC-32 if you get an Atom.

Wait a sec…
So I’m supposed to have a fancy college degree?
Why didn’t anyone tell me this?!?!

Seriously, though.
No college degree is necessary.
I’ve just finished my first year as a BIOLOGY (ewwww!) major.
Needless to say, I’m changing it to a more robotics-like field, soon.
I haven’t taken a single electronics/programming course.
If want to do it, you’ll stare at data sheets for hours, ask a whole lot of questions, and things will magically fall into place.
That said, slow is probably the way to go (premade was how my first two bots were).

Damn…
You got me.
It’s all a conspiracy.

Actually… I’m not sure what’s up.
I’ve definitely been on for 6 hours today.

Yea, me too!

robodude666 · July 8, 2006, 2:59am

Interesting… Any books on EE (electrical engineering) you would recommend? I would go to a fancy college that has EE but I won’t get accepted to any

I think I may use the Basic Atom Pro in the end anyway because all the fun toys I want to get and use, only seem to work with basic… If I have extra money I will get both OOPIC-C and Basic Atom Pro and try em both out, but till then basic atom pro.

Seems my trilly has been acting stupid… It added you on as AIM but as some crazy mode where you were just on the list and wouldn’t actually be active. I seem to have fixed it.

You don’t have a fancy college degree yet? Hate bio, eh? My sister hated it a lot too lol.

Oh, and good bye eveyone. I will be going away for 9 days to Alaska. (mom forcing me to go =/) I am leaving tomorrow at 12PM EST and will be back sometime late on july 17th

Oh, and woohoo! I seem to have found a job that pays $1,000/m for programming and server work yay! I start on like 18th and should get my first paycheck july 28th or so. w00t!

nickreiser · July 9, 2006, 12:55am

Of all the books that I’ve read (and I’ve read only a handful of electronics books), I still haven’t found “the one”.
I’ve just finished struggling through a pretty boring Digital Electronics book that I definitely wouldn’t recommend.

Hopefully, someone can chime in with some nice suggestions…
::AH-HEM::

I’d like to read them if there’s any good ones out there.

Come to think of it… you can get a book called “What’s A Microcontroller” at RadioShack that’s quite good.
It’s about 60-80 bucks, but you get a micro (BASIC STAMP, pretty crappy micro, but it’s a learning tool, so what the hay…), a prototyping board, and a bunch of components with it.
I’m thinking that’s probably the best way to get into electronics.
There’s nothing like blinkin’ your first LED to get you interested.

Don’t feel like you’ll be stuck using the STAMP if you get one to learn on.
The different BASIC micros (a.k.a. BASIC clones) are VERY similar in their compiler’s languages.

Hehe… I’m going to be majoring in Computers and Electrical Engineering (once I finally get off my lazy bum and switch from Bio) for another year and a half at my local county college.
I’m doing it there to save money and to get good (easy) grades.
Then, I’ll be transfering (::crosses fingers: to MIT if they accept me.

What’s a trilly?
O.o
o.O

Working on it.

By the time I start my first EE class (this fall), I’ll have already built 3 bipeds, understand 3 programming languages pretty well, and learned a nice smattering of electronics knowledge by working with my first micro.
Since I’m hurredly finishing all my non-EE requirements this summer, things are lookin’ real good from here.

cobra1729 · July 20, 2006, 10:30pm

Hey Robodude,

I just joined this forum, thought I may be able to help you with the question on good EE books…

Personally, I like “Electronic Principles” by Albert Paul Malvino. I have an old edition (from like 15 years ago) but it covers really basic electrical and electronics stuff (kirchoff’s laws, diodes, transistors and op-amps). You can try some of the later editions of this book, but I personally like the old one.

robodude666 · July 20, 2006, 10:43pm

Thanks,

I will look more into it later. Though it is a college text book I think and costs like $135 =/ Latest seems to be 6th edition.